Genealogy Chat

Thank you everyone for your input.

Baptism St Johns, Derby 1907 ..Page 119 Entry No. 949:-
Charlotte Eleanor. Parents Thomas & Charlotte 140 Brook Street Derby . Painter

Thomas Rowland (House Painter ) is on Charlotte Eleanor birth certificate

Charlotte Eleanor marriage certicate Fathers Name Thomas Rowland (deceased) Painter.

When we get a clue about Charlotte Bonapate she refers to coming from Leciester

Some talk she was a Foundling ........not sure where this came from.

Charlotte Eleanor Rowland (CER) Left Burkes home about 14 years of age and lived with a friend ....then various lodgings until she married.

Burke’s daughter Clara, left home and went to live with her uncle.....about 14.....and lived with the family till she got married.

Believe we have Burke death certificate.......died in hospital Sept 1951

Waiting for James Burke and Charlotte marriage certificate hope it gives us some sort of clue.
So many scenarios......so few clues. The name written on C.E.R. birth certificate is definitely BONAPATE not actually Bonaparte and as I say born Leicester.

Charlotte V's father's name from her Burke marriage cert will hopefully be a helpful clue - though if she was indeed a foundling, she may not have known who her father was.

.......... or she might have lied, used a made-up name for father


Our ancestors didn't help us one little tiny bit!!!!!

Or might even have made up her own name, as we can't find her anywhere before 1907.

Unusual names are usually a help - but not this time!

We sent for James and Charlotte V marriage certificate 3 week ago to the UK we heard today they would be dealing with it 29/6. So hopefully it arrives soon. Thanks all new to this.

The marriage certificate for James and Charlotte V has not turned up. 18 days after GRO say they have despatched. Am having to lobby them to investigate.

this is the only charlotte venus born in uk in 1879



Births Dec 1879 (>99%)
Forster Charlotte Venus S. Shields 10a 672

We've already ruled that one out, Malyon.


Thanks for keeping us informed, Spotts.

there is no such name in uk bonapate could charlotte have been born in another country

Right...having received the marriage cert for James Burke and Charlotte Rowland [our thread] . We now find out that her fathers name on the certificate reads as one Frederick Bentley employed as a boot maker in Leicester, deceased. Nothing seems to fit IFF Charlotte was telling the truth about her age, when marry ing Burke. However there does seem to be possibilities if we can trace this father. Where the Bonapate name came from and where is this Thomas Rowland she was supposed to be married to is still puzzling.

This one's a "shoe finisher", and has a daughter Charlotte, but of the wrong age. She appears to marry Henry Memory in 1890, and is still with him and children in 1901.



Frederick Bentley
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Frederick Bentley
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Caroline Bentley
Gender: Male
Where born: Belgrave, Leicestershire, England
Civil Parish: Leicester Black Friars
County/Island: Leicestershire
Country: England
Street address: 55A Ruding St
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Shoe Finisher
Registration district: Leicester
ED, institution, or vessel: 58
Neighbors:
Piece: 3179
Folio: 70
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
Frederick Bentley 34
Caroline Bentley 33
Arthur Bentley 14
Charlotte Bentley 9
Louisa Bentley 7
Mary A. Bentley 5
Florence Bentley 3
Frederick Bentley

Here's Henry Memory, husband of Charlotte Bentley, living alone in 1939. He's a widower.

Harry Memory
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Harry Memory
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Widowed
Birth Date: 5 May 1869
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 18 Swannington Rd
Residence Place: Leicester, Leicestershire, England
Occupation: Shoe Repairer
Schedule Number: 172
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: REAU
Registration district: 407-1
Household Members:
Name
Harry Memory

I don't see any of the family in 1911, and don't see Charlotte's death.


Just a wild thought -
is it possible that Charlotte Memory nee Bentley had a mid-life crisis (or an affair with Thomas Rowland), ran away from home and reinvented herself with a new name and a younger age ??

EDIT:

This might be Henry junior in 1911:

Harry Memory
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Harry Memory
Age in 1911: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1898
Relation to Head: Visitor
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Leicester, Leicestershire, England
Civil Parish: Leicester
County/Island: Leicestershire
Country: England
Street address: 90 Jarrom Street Leicester
Occupation: School
Registration district: Leicester
Registration District Number: 407
Sub-registration district: South Leicester
ED, institution, or vessel: 32
Piece: 19296
Household Members:
Name Age
Frank Seth Scarborough 40 - head
Sarah Scarborough 35 - wife
Mary Ann Skelton 67 - mother-in-law
Edith May Mansfield 29 - sister-in-law
Harry Memory 13

The comment about mid life crisis may well be true, we keep coming against age issues with her.
But how about this:-
While browsing we have come across the following:-
Manchester Workhouse records 1800-1911 shows an entry for a Charlotte Bentley
Headers in the record show ‘Religious Creed’ as well as Charlton Union and Joseph Firth [Master of the Wor.....(presume workhouse)]. The entry for CB shows on 19 March 1901 aged 29, from where admitted shows HULME.
We don’t know what all this means, does anyone have any ideas if these records can be interrogated further. Still clutching at straws here. Thanks everyone. How does Thomas Rowland fit into the picture, we are having just as much trouble with him.-p.

Not sure the workhouse records are relevant, but will post anyway.
Age/YOB of both would fit Frederick's daughter.

However, I feel they are more likely to relate to a Lancashire girl.
There are also records of admission for a Charlotte Bentley in 1889 and 1890 - if that's the same girl, she can't be Frederick's daughter. (I haven't used up credits to see if her age is on the image of those earlier records.)


Manchester Workhouse Registers 1800-1911
First Name Charlotte
Last Name Bentley
Date of Admission Year 1904
Date of Admission Month Sep
Date of Admission Day 28
Locality Of Record Manchester Withington Workhouse
Place Manchester
County Lancashire
Age
Birth Year 1873
From Whence Admitted Chorlton On Medlock
Number -
Film -
Date Range 1862 - 1905
Title Of Records Creed Register
Record set Manchester Workhouse Registers 1800-1911
Record collection Workhouses and poor law
Category Institutions & organisations
Collections from England, Great Britain

Discharged 10/10/04


Manchester Workhouse Registers 1800-1911
First Name Charlotte
Last Name Bentley
Date of Admission Year 1901
Date of Admission Month Mar
Date of Admission Day 18
Locality Of Record Manchester Withington Workhouse
Place Manchester
County Lancashire
Age [29 on image ]
Birth Year
From Whence Admitted Hulme
Number
Film M327 - 2 - 2 - 23
Date Range 1901-1902 A-K
Title Of Records Creed Register
Record set Manchester Workhouse Registers 1800-1911
Record collection Workhouses and poor law
Category Institutions & organisations
Collections from England, Great Britain

Discharged on 09/04/01.

I think that's more likely to be this girl:


Charlotte Minnie Bentley
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Charlotte Minnie Bentley
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation to Head: Inmate
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Ompton, Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Withington
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Didsbury
ED, institution, or vessel: Chorlton Union Workhouse
Neighbors:
Piece: 3673
Folio: 153
Page Number: 10
Household schedule number: 1


Charlotte Bearlly
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Charlotte Bearlly
[Charlotte Bentley]
[Charlotte Minnie Bearlly]
Gender: Female
Age: 20
Relationship: Servant
Birth Year: 1871
Birth Place: Knessel, Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Withington
Residence Place: Withington, Withington, Lancashire, England
Sub registration district: Didsbury
ED, Institution or Vessel: 8
Neighbors:
Piece: 3162
Folio: 64

It's doubtful that we'll ever find anything definite about Thomas Rowland.

He and Charlotte don't seem to have married - there are no marriages anywhere in England/Wales of a Thomas Rowland to a Charlotte of any surname.

If they weren't together on the night of a census, and never married, we'll never find their names together. (Well, except on young Charlotte's birth and marriage certs)

We don't know where they might have met, so don't know where he might have been living.

We don't know his age.

We can't find Charlotte V before young Charlotte's birth, so no clues from wherever she might have been living.

If Charlotte V was Charlotte Bentley (I mean the daughter of Frederick the choe finisher, and not Charlotte Minnie in the workhouse) , she was in Leicester in 1901, but we don't know where she might have gone after that.

Charlotte nee Bentley in 1901, just for the record:

Charlotte Memory
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Charlotte Memory
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Spouse: Harry Memory
Birth Place: Leicestershire, England
Civil Parish: Leicester formerly St Mary
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
County/Island: Leicestershire
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Leicester
Sub-registration district: South Leicester
ED, institution, or vessel: 28
Neighbors:
Piece: 3005
Folio: 63
Page Number: 25
Household schedule number: 183
Household Members:
Name Age
Harry Memory 31 - shoe laster
Charlotte Memory 29
Harry Memory 3
Arthur Memory 7/12

The younger son Arthur died in infancy - maybe that was enough throw Charlotte off the rails.

Son Harry isn't with his parents in 1911, and I can't see his parents anywhere in 1911.


Arthur Memory
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Arthur Memory
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1902
Registration Year: 1902
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 0
Registration district: Leicester
Inferred County: Leicestershire
Volume: 7a
Page: 117

Another child had died in infancy in 1891:


Charlotte Memory
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Charlotte Memory
Gender: Female
Age: 20
Relationship: Wife
Birth Year: 1871
Spouse: Harry Memory
Child: Charlotte Memory
Birth Place: Leicestershire, England
Civil Parish: All Saints
Residence Place: All Saints, Leicestershire, England
Sub registration district: West Leicester
ED, Institution or Vessel: 39
Neighbors:
Piece: 2541
Folio: 21
Household Members:
Name Age
Harry Memory 22
Charlotte Memory 20
Charlotte Memory 1/12


Charlotte Memory
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Charlotte Memory
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Registration Year: 1891
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 0
Registration district: Leicester
Inferred County: Leicestershire
Volume: 7a
Page: 144

Leicestershire marriages Transcription

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First name(s) Henry
Last name Memory
Age 21
Birth year 1869
Residence 29 West Holme Street
Father's first name(s) David
Father's last name Memory
Marriage year 1890
Marriage date 25 Dec 1890
Spouse's first name(s) Charlotte
Spouse's last name Bentley
Spouse's age 20
Spouse's residence 26 West Holme Street
Spouse's father's first name(s) Frederick
Spouse's father's last name Bentley
Denomination Anglican
Place Leicester, St Paul's
County Leicestershire
Country England
Event type Parish Registers
Archive Record Office for Leicestershire, Leicester & Rutland
Archive reference DE1501/9
Record set Leicestershire Marriages
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Collections from England, Great Britain

a witness is louisa bentley

charlotte signed her name

Louisa is Charlotte's younger sister, as in 1881 census posted earlier.

(Just to be clear, I'm meaning Charlotte, daughter of Frederick the shoe finisher in Leicester, and not Charlotte Minnie in the workhouse in Lancashire.)