Genealogy Chat

Was the 1911 Census the last Census carried out? If so, where do I go find ancestors?

There was a 1921 Census, and successive censuses at 10 year intervals except in 1941.

The 1921 Census and all later censuses are subject to a 100 year embargo

The 1921 Census will not be released for transcription until 2021, so it will probably be available on ancestry or FMP in 2022.

I think the 1931 census has been lost, but if any part of it exists it will be released in 2031, and so on


There is the 1939 Register, carried out in September 1939 in order to get a listing so all residents in England and Wales at that date. It later formed the basis for the NHS when that was brought in in 1947. Scotland's was done separately.

It is available on FMP

As to where you find ancestors between 1911 and now .....

....... you look at the 1939 Register, and for births marriages and deaths on Freebmd.org.uk, or bmds on ancestry or FMP.

There may be electoral rolls for your areas of interest, etc etc

Newspapers are also a good source :)

Thank you. Is it possible to visit main libraries and check out historical electrol rolls or can that be done online. :-)

Yes - main libraries with a Local Studies section, or the nearest Archive, should have historical ER. If they don't have the year(s) you are interested in, they can tell you who does hold them.

ER books are arranged by address, not surname. Consequently you do need an idea which road they were living in to start with. It would be less laborious if you believed they lived in a village.

There are some ER online - it depends where your geographical interest is. They are searchable by surname which makes life easier. Ancestry holds a number for the larger cities. If you don't have a sub, either ask on here, or see if your local library has a sub on their public computers which you can use.

Another source are Street Directories in the first half of the 20th century and earlier. They are often, but not always, arranged by both surname & separately by address. Usually only the head of the household is named. However, it does mean that you then have an address which you can look at on the ER.

Remember that full suffrage didn't occur until 1928. Married women had it from 1918. The age of majority was 21.

Oh, thank you very much. I'm looking for husband's grandfather but cannot find birth/ death details and it is proving difficult as his name was Smith!! But we do have two addresses in Gillingham so will follow up on your suggestions.

Medway Archives are a great source of parish records for the Medway area and do go as far as gravesend and Sheppey too

Would he have been around in 1939?

The register can be searched by address.

Yes and living in known address in Gillingham. Husband remembers it well and visiting granddad in hospital in Chatham where he died (1960s) but we can't find any death records. :-(

When a baby was born in rural villages in the 1850s, did the mother have to go to the main town to register the birth, or were there other options.

It was up to the Registrar to visit the villages & register any births. The parents didn't face any financial penalties for failing to do so until 1876 even though it became compulsory in 1873.

In some families, only the male children were registered, possible forward looking for inheritance purposes.

If the births took place in the Rochester Dioceses, have a look on https://www.freereg.org.uk/ for transciptions of baptisms. Sometimes the clergyman noted the date of birth. The images would be on https://cityark.medway.gov.uk/

The 1960's death might not be registered under Medway registration district.
Have a look here
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/medway.html

Maralyn, if you want to share the details you have, we might be able to find more information.

I notice you have Gertrude M Smith b.1927 (your mother-in-law?) in your tree, along with other Smiths- Bertie 1925, Eunice 1928, and Myrtle 1929. All with mother's maiden name Smith- and all also registered under surname MUNCEY

Possibly the Bertie in your tree?:

First name(s) BERTIE C
Last name SMITH
Birth year 1925
Birth quarter 1
Mother's last name Smith
District Medway
County Kent
Volume 2A Page 1208
------------------------------

Listed on CWGC
Lance CorporalSMITH, BERTIE CYRIL
Service Number CH/X 113349
Birth date 09 Dec 1924
Birth place Gillingham, Kent
Died 22/02/1945
Detachment 385.Royal Marines

Son of Gertrude Emily Smith, of Gillingham, Kent.
----------------------

Gertrude on the 1939 register:

Smith Household (6 People) 118 Richmond Road , Gillingham M.B., Kent, England

Bertie Smith 16 Mar 1888 Male Skilled Labourer A R P Warden Married
Sarah Ann Smith 02 Oct 1893 Female Housekeeper Married
Joseph F James (Fullager,Smith) 03 Sep 1915 Male Warehouseman Single
George A T Fullager 04 Feb 1921 Male Fitter Shorts Airport Single
Gertrude E Whamond (Smith) 11 March/ April 1927 Female At School -
Closed record
---------------------------------------

Gertrude is crossed through on the 1939 register, so may appear elsewhere.

Bertie Smith (born 1888) married Sarah Ann Fullager in 1938. On the marriage index Bertie also appears with surname CHATFIELD.
-----------------------------

Without knowing the information you have, and what certificates,I don't know if this 1939 register is connected.

Setter Household (7 People) 15 Eva Road , Gillingham M.B., Kent, England

Albert J Setter 16 Jan 1886 Male Crane Driver Married 279 1
John Setter 25 Mar 1917 Male Labourer Single 279 2
Sorry, this record is officially closed.
Marguerite Cook (Setter) 26 Aug 1920 Female Shop Assistant Single
Sorry, this record is officially closed.
Sorry, this record is officially closed.
Gertrude (Emily) Setter (Muncey) 13 Apr 1903 Female House Keeper Married
------------------------

Gertrude Emily Muncey- possibly mother of Smith children.

Her first marriage:

Marriages Sep 1920
Muncey Herbert W J Smith Medway 2a 2121
Smith Gertrude E Muncey Medway 2a 2121

Oh, that is FAB, you have all the detailed info wanted. Some I knew about, some I didn't. Nana Setter was unofficially a Smith and prior to that a Muncey.

Also trying to fathom out granddad Bertie Smith's family and it is a minefield. Smith/Chatfield. Can't work out whether I have twisted two families together or Bertie's mum Bridget Dempsey married a George Chatfield (1874) had some children and then lived with a George Smith! But she seems to have also changed her Christian name to Frances/Fanny. Some of the Smith children, as recorded in various Census are not recorded in birth records as Smith but as Chatfield. Some of those recorded in birth records as Smith then go on to marry as Chatfield or Chatfield-Smith. Has there been some sort of scandal to force Bridget to change her name? We're there two 'husbands' and what happened to George Chatfield?

I appreciate any help you can give and your time spent on searching the family.

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

The marriage you refer to

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1874 (>99%)
BONWICK Henry Tunbridge 2a 868
Chatfield George Tunbridge 2a 868
DEMPSEY Bridget Tunbridge 2a 868
Woodman Ellen Tunbridge 2a 868

---------------------------------

Chatfield/Dempsey birth registrations. They doesn't appear to be any post 1883

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: Order:
CHATFIELD, MARY ELIZABETH DEMPSEY Order
GRO Reference: 1872 D Quarter in TONBRIDGE Volume 02A Page 577 Order

CHATFIELD, ALICE DEMPSEY Order
GRO Reference: 1874 S Quarter in TONBRIDGE Volume 02A Page 573 Order

CHATFIELD, GEORGE DEMPSEY Order
GRO Reference: 1876 J Quarter in TONBRIDGE Volume 02A Page 611 Order

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: Order:
CHATFIELD, ALFRED HORACE DEMPSEY Order
GRO Reference: 1879 M Quarter in SEVENOAKS Volume 02A Page 587 Order

CHATFIELD, ROSINA DEMPSEY Order
GRO Reference: 1883 D Quarter in HOLLINGBOURNE Volume 02A Page 722 Order

And this the family in 1881 - George Smith with Bridget now Frances?

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Cottage, East Sutton, Hollingbourne, Kent, England
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
George Smith Head Married Male 33 1848 Maresfield, Sussex, England Agricule Labourer
Fanny Smith Wife Married Female 32 1849 Lambeth, Surrey, England
Mary Elizabeth Smith Daughter Single Female 8 1873 Tunbridge Wells, Kent, England Scholar
George Smith Son Single Male 4 1877 Tunbridge Wells, Kent, England Scholar
Alfred Horace Smith Son Single Male 2 1879 Sevenoaks, Kent, England -

--------------------------
and 1891

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Wigmore Farm, Rainham Road, Gillingham, Medway, Kent, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
George Smith Head Married Male 43 1848 Sussex, England Labourer
Frances Smith Wife Married Female 42 1849 London, Middlesex, England -
Elizabeth Smith Daughter Single Female 18 1873 Tunbridge, Kent, England Servant
Alfred Smith Son - Male 13 1878 Sevenoaks, Kent, England Scholar
Walter Smith Son - Male 9 1882 East Sutton, Kent, England Scholar
Rosina Smith Daughter - Female 7 1884 Boughton, Kent, England Scholar
Annie Smith Daughter - Female 4 1887 Headcorn, Kent, England -
Bertie Smith Son - Male 3 1888 Lenham, Kent, England -
Emily Smith Daughter - Female 0 1891 Gillingham, Kent, England -
Albert Brancer Visitor Single Male 18 1873 High Halstow, Kent, England Labourer

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: Order:
SMITH, WALTER DEMPSEY Order
GRO Reference: 1881 S Quarter in HOLLINGBOURNE Volume 02A Page 706

???
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: Order:
SMITH, ANNIE DEMSON Order
GRO Reference: 1885 S Quarter in HOLLINGBOURN Volume 02A Page 729 Order

SMITH, BERTIE DEMPSEY Order
GRO Reference: 1888 J Quarter in HOLLINGBOURN Volume 02A Page 733

? (Probably as Dora on 1901 census)
SMITH, EMILY DORA DAMPRIE Order
GRO Reference: 1891 M Quarter in MEDWAY Volume 02A Page 634

???
SMITH, GEORGE FRANK - Order
GRO Reference: 1893 M Quarter in HOLLINGBOURN Volume 02A Page 783

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Cottage, West Street, Lenham, Hollingbourne, Kent, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
George Smith Head Married Male 52 1849 Sussex, England General Labourer
Frances Smith Wife Married Female 51 1850 London, Middlesex, England -
Bertie Smith Son - Male 13 1888 Lenham, Kent, England -
Dora Smith Daughter - Female 10 1891 Doddington, Kent, England -
George Smith Son - Male 8 1893 Lenham, Kent, England -
James Smith Grand Son - Male 3 1898 Lenham, Kent, England -
Elizabeth Smith Grand Daughter - Female 2 1899 Lenham, Kent, England -

------------------------
and 1911 - Frances says married 39 years. 11 children born. 8 still living, 3 have died

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Payden Street Wichling Lenham, Otterden Wichling, Kent, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
Frances Smith Head Married Female 62 1849 London Lambeth -
Elizabeth Smith Daughter - Female 38 1873 Tonbridge Kent -
George Smith Son - Male 18 1893 Doddington Kent Farm Labourer
Fame Smith Grandson - Male 13 1898 Wychling Kent School
Cissie Smith Grandchild - Female 12 1899 Wychling School

1939 Register

Yes, all related. Gertrude Emily Smith (maiden name) first husband Muncey, second 'husband' Smith and third husband Setter.

Thanks again for checking the register.

Do you have the marriage certificate of Bridget to George Chatfield.

This will hopefully give his age, occupation, Father's name and his occupation to try and identify him pre marriage.

I just wonder if George Chatfield and George Smith are one and the same person?

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Mar 1848 (>99%)
CHATFIELD George Uckfield 7 530

Uckfield RD covers Maresfield where George Smith says he was born.

however there are numerous George Smith's born Uckfield RD