Genealogy Chat

AustinQ

I just wanted to thank you for all your efforts in finding Beatrice for me. I am very happy with my new relative - lost to us all this time.

Shirley-I'm, Kathleen, Malyon and Detective, thank you also for your interest and help. I had remembered how helpful GR people are and you didn't disappoint!

And there was me thinking he might be a fugitive from the law! It seems so simple once you know doesn't it ! Thank you.

Thanks Detective.

Morning Christine- it was the other way round- William was technically a Luker at birth, but then his mother later married a Kemp. This is her marriage:

name(s) William Kemp
Marriage date 02 Sep 1866
Marriage place Hammersmith
Father's name(s) William Kemp
Spouse's name(s) Sarah Annie Luker
Spouse's father's name(s) Charles Luker
Residence Hammersmith, Middlesex, England

Although their daughter, Rosetta, was born before the marriage she was registered as a Kemp:

KEMP, ROSETTA SARAH (Mother's maiden name: LUKER )
GRO Reference: 1865 D Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 111
---------------------------------

So that's the mystery of the name change sorted.

For those who don't have Ancestry, the url links to the 1871 census

William Kemp
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1862
Relation: Son
Mother's name: Sarah Kemp
Gender: Male
Where born: Kensington, London, England
Civil Parish: Basingstoke
Town: Basingstoke
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Registration district: Basingstoke
Sub-registration district: Basingstoke
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Household schedule number: 107
Piece: 1234
Folio: 38
Page Number: 21
Household Members:
Name Age
Sarah Kemp 27 - Wife, Overton, Hampshire (husband in London)
William Kemp 9 - Kensington
Charles Kemp 7 - Overton, Hampshire
Rosetta S Kamp 5 - Kensington

Hello Austin Q.

I sent details of what you found to my other family contacts and one of them has sent me this:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=iLq8&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&gss=angs-g&new=1&rank=1&msT=1&gsfn=William%20&gsfn_x=0&gsln=Kemp%20&gsln_x=0&msypn__ftp=London&MSAV=1&msbdy=1862&cpxt=1&cp=11&catbucket=rstp&uidh=hq4&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=838615&dbid=7619&indiv=1&ml_rpos=10

It looks as if this was a single mother. Perhaps if she later married Mr Luker, her children became known by that name, but were still technically Kemp? Perhaps on something as formal as the census, he though he'd better use his original name?

Hello AustinQ

I will keep looking for Beatrice after 1911 - nothing obvious in what I have looked at so far.

Two observations on re-reading everything you sent me:

The 1891 record that first shows Beatrice as a baby shows a Mary Rogers living there. Probably just a coincidence, it is a married name and it says she was born in Essex, but Priscilla's mother was Priscilla Rogers before her marriage.

I was speaking to my brother this evening - he is a lot more knowledgeable about the Cornish families than me - there are apparently quite a few Kemp relatives down there - if they were looking for another name to live under, perhaps that's why they picked that one?

It certainly makes sense as to why Priscilla would be in Leytonstone. It's hard to imagine what her life must have been like- but she was fortunate that she was able to get maintenance from the fathers which, presumably, helped pay for the keep of her children- albeit with other family members.

The challenge now is to find out what happened Beatrice! (and why the Lukers changed their surname to Kemp on the census?)

This is Sarah and Maggie in 1939- an R has been added to Margaret (Maggie's) record but I don't think it's her initial. Margaret's birth date was originally entered as 1894, but on the original this looks like it was altered to 1891.

Sarah married Walter Herbert Church in 1907 (using surname Luker) as posted by Chris above. Lloyd listed below is their son.

1939 register:
Church Household 78 Vernon Road , Leyton M.B., Essex, England

Sarah P Church 03 Jun 1891 Female Clerk Bookmaker Widowed
Lloyd W Church 18 Dec 1910 Male Tennis Racket Stringer Married
Margaret (R) Luker 16 Feb 1894 (1891) Female Tailoress Single
-----------------------------------------

Sarah died 1977 Waltham Forest, Essex
Margaret (Maggie) died 1979 Basingstoke, Hampshire
-------------------------------------

I believe son William (William Lloyd Luker) went to Canada and then US- married Anne and had daughter Joan (will try and confirm this tomorrow).

Still need to find Florence Ethel Luker/ Kemp born 1888 and Beatrice Jewell born 1890 after the 1911 census.

Someone may be able to find them- if not I'll look in tomorrow.

Have a good evening

:-)

AustinQ, I'm sure you are right - I really shouldn't do this late at night! I couldn't find any connection to Cornwall at all with a Margaret Waldron and I'm sure I was wrong about that one.

Your researching skills are obviously much better than mine and this does feel right. It ties in with Priscilla's behaviour on the other two occasions, leaving the children with family. It could also explain how she ended up in London. I should think she was persona non grata in Cornwall after the first time, and perhaps she was sent to stay with her sister. It's an odd part of London for someone to gravitate to without some good reason.

I can't thank you enough for all your time and hard work.

Chris Ho

My grandmother - the 1st of these children in question was Jessie Louisa (1884).
She was brought up in her grandparents household. Her mother had very little to do with her. Thank you

Saw below Baptism, was she Jessie 1884?...

Chris :)

Baptism
Day Month 07-Sep
Year 1887
Parish Or Reg District Budock
Forename Jane Louisa
Surname JEWELL
Sex dau
Father Forename Willie
Mother Forename Priscilla
Residence Penryn
Father Rank Profession Labourer

http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/

(if anything else on above link)


1891 (Find My Past)
Pricilla Jewell Head Widow Female 62 1829 - Cornwall, England
Ellen Jewell Daughter Single Female 20 1871 General Servant At Home Cornwall, England
Mary Jewell Granddaughter - Female 9 1882 Scholar Cornwall, England
Jessie Jewell Granddaughter - Female 7 1884 Scholar Cornwall, England
House name Bets? (Poets) Court
Street Budock Penryn Street
Parish Budock
County Cornwall
Registration district Falmouth
Archive reference RG12
Piece number 1835
Folio 98
Page 8


Burial
Day Month 10-Oct
Year 1886
Parish Or Reg District Budock
Forename William
Surname JEWELL
Age 56
Residence Budock


Edits

14 August 1885 - Royal Cornwall Gazette - Truro, Cornwall, England

Marriage
LUKER - JEWELL - At Falmouth, August 2, Mr. William L. Luker to Margaret Jewell, both of Falmouth.


(below the Conrad on 1911)

CHURCH, CONRAD MAURICE WALTER (LUKER)
GRO Reference: 1908 D Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 343


Marriages Sep 1907 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------
CHURCH Walter W. Ham 4a 207
LUKER Sarah W. Ham 4a 207

Christine, I don't have much time today, but I don't think that marriage is correct.

It looks like Kemp wasn't William's surname. The other girls are registered under the name Luker, with mother's maiden name Jewell:

LUKER, SARAH PRISCILLA (Mother's maiden name: JEWELL)
GRO Reference: 1886 S Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 201

LUKER, FLORENCE ETHEL (Mother's maiden name: JEWELL)
GRO Reference: 1888 S Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 194

LUKER, MAGGIE (Mother's maiden name: JEWELL)
GRO Reference: 1891 J Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 285
-----------------------------------------------

A tree on Ancestry has the mother, Margaret as Priscilla's sister.

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
6, Poets Court, Budock, Falmouth, Cornwall, England

William Jewell Head Married Male 50 1831 Shoemaker Penryn, Cornwall,
Priscilla Jewell Wife Married Female 50 1831 - Cornwall, England
Margaret Jewell Daughter Single Female 19 1862 General Servant Falmouth, Cornwall,
Priscilla Jewell Daughter Single Female 13 1868 Scholar Cornwall, England
Ellen Jewell Daughter Single Female 9 1872 Scholar Cornwall, England
Sarah Jewell Mother Widow Female 79 1802 Fruit Dealer Cornwall, England
Polly Hellard Lodger Single Female 76 1805 General Servant Penryn, Cornwall,
-------------------------------------------------

I've no idea why the family went by the surname Kemp, but it does look as though Margaret could be Priscilla's sister- and it would explain why she's looking after Beatrice.

This is Margaret's marriage:

Marriages Sep 1885 (>99%)
D'BALL Oscar Falmouth 5c 246
JEWELL Margaret Falmouth 5c 246 <<<<<<<<<<
Luker William Loyed Falmouth 5c 246 <<<<<<<<<
Setherley Emma Jane Falmouth 5c 246

Margaret's death:
First name(s) MARGARET
Last name LUKER
Gender Female
Birth year 1864
Age 72
Death quarter 1
Death year 1936
District Basingstoke
County Hampshire
Volume 2C Page 331

William's death:
Name William L Luker
Birth Date abt 1863
Date of Registration Mar 1928
Age at Death 65
Registration district Basingstoke
Inferred County Hampshire
Volume 2c Page 295

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations)

LUKER- William Loyed of Trefusis East Oakley, Hampshire died 10 February 1928 Administration (with Will) London 23 March to Margaret Luker widow Effects £387 13s 3d

I'll have another look later after work.

AustinQ - I think perhaps you may have struck gold! There is a marriage for William Kemp in Islington in 1882, possibly to a Margaret Waldron. I can't yet place her in Cornwall, but there are Waldrons in Budock ( a very small place) which is where Priscilla came from and she and Margaret are roughly the same age. Maybe that's how she ended up working in Leytonstone in the first place?

This is certainly the closest option yet. I will continue to try and find Margaret in Cornwall to see if I can tie them more closely together. May have to be tomorrow now though.

Thank you!

Malyon - please read the thread. The child was reported to have been born July. The birth you have posted was for a child born in Staffordshire and is listed with her parents (Bertram and Clara) in 1891.

could this be a child of Pricilla named Bennett


Mother's Maiden Surname: 
 
BENNETT, ALICE  JEWELL  
JEWELL  

GRO Reference: 1889  M Quarter in CHEADLE  Volume 06B  Page 300

Beatrice is listed as the Kemp's daughter in 1901:

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
105, Mornington Road, Low Leyton, West Ham, Essex, England

William Kemp Head Married Male 38 1863 House Decorator Overton, Hampshire
Margaret Kemp Wife Married Female 37 1864 - Falmouth, Cornwall,
Sarah Kemp Daughter Single Female 14 1887 - Leytonstone, Essex,
Florence Kemp Daughter Single Female 12 1889 - Leytonstone, Essex,
Beatrice Kemp Daughter Single Female 11 1890 - Leytonstone, Essex
Maggie Kemp Daughter Single Female 10 1891 - Leytonstone, Essex,
William Kemp Son Single Male 8 1893 - Leytonstone, Essex,
Harry Fountain Boarder Single Male 24 1877 Engraver Copper Plate Forest Gate, Essex,
------------------------------

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
99 Mornington Road, Low Leyton, Essex, England

William Kemp Head Married Male House Decorator 48 1863 Paddington London
Margaret Kemp Wife Married Female - 45 1866 Palmouth Cornwall
Florence Kemp Daughter Single Female Shorthand Typist 22 1889 Leytonstone Essex
Maggie Kemp Daughter Single Female Dressmaker 20 1891 Leytonstone Essex
William Kemp Son Single Male House Decorator 18 1893 Leytonstone Essex
Hilda Bolling Boarder Single Female Shorthand Typist 22 1889 Sussex Worthing
Conrad Churchy Visitor - Male - 2 1909 Leytonstone Essex
Beatrice Jewell Boarder Single Female Dressmakers Assistant 20 1891 Middlesex Poplar

Christine- it's quite a challenge. I'm thinking that maybe she never registered the birth?

I did see this child as a visitor with the Kemp family in Leyton. She was born in the area Priscilla was working at the time and is aged 8 months (age roughly correct- census taken 5th April). The mother of the Kemp family is from Cornwall- perhaps a friend or distant relation?? I'm struggling to find a birth for her or any further records:-

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Enfield Villas, Southwell Grove Road, Leyton, West Ham, Essex, England

William Kemp Head Married Male 29 1862 Carpenter Paddington, Middlesex,
Margaret Kemp Wife Married Female 28 1863 - Falmouth, Cornwall,
Sarah Kemp Daughter - Female 4 1887 - Leytonstone, Essex,
Florence Kemp Daughter - Female 2 1889 - Leytonstone, Essex,
Maggie Kemp Daughter - Female 1 month 1891 Leytonstone, Essex,
Beatrise Jewell Visitor - Female 8 months 1891 Leytonstone, Essex,
Mary Rogers Lodger Widow Female 64 1827 Living On Her Own Means Stratford, Essex,

EDIT:
Beatrice is still with the Kemp family in 1911- birth place given as Poplar Middlesex.

Thank you Malyon. Yes William Richard did die in 1963. I think he was my 1st cousin twice removed. In the 1891 as you have found, Priscilla was working for a new employer in Chiswick. At the time of the court case I think she was already there because she gave that address.

At the time of the child's conception she was working as domestic servant to the family of the father of the child. I think it quite likely that she was given notice when her condition became apparent, and it's possible that she went home to Cornwall if she had nowhere else to go.

is this Pricilla in Chiswick 1891

Precilla Jewell
England and Wales Census, 1891
Name
Precilla Jewell
Event Type
Census
Event Date
1891
County
Middlesex
Parish
Chiswick
Ecclesiastical Parish
ST MICHAELS
Registration District
Brentford
Residence Note
Priory Road
Gender
Female
Age
20
Marital Status
Single
Occupation
Servant
Relationship to Head of Household
Servant
Birth Year (Estimated)
1871
Birthplace
Cornwall, England
Page Number
48
Registration Number
RG12
Piece/Folio
1034/ 91

Deaths Dec 1963   (>99%)

JEWELL
 WILLIAM R
 73
 FALMOUTH
 7A
39

Kath, thank you. Emma and Evaline are children of the John Jewell family I mentioned above. Unfortunately Leonora is too early. There are an awful lot of Jewells in that area and it gets very confusing! I have the Jewell family back to 1545.

William Richard Jewell
England Births and Christenings
Name
William Richard Jewell
Gender
Male
Christening Date
26 Jun 1890
Christening Place
Penryn, Cornwall, England
Father's Name
John Jewell
Mother's Name
Clara