Genealogy Chat

William Albert Cundy married Vera F Cooper in 1950 in Surrey.

There's an emigration record on Ancestry showing him heading to Canada in 1957 as intended permanent residence. I have been unable to find a record for Vera going to join him, nor for their two boys Martin C 1956 and Stephen W 1952.

The trail starts with electoral records on FMP which appear to show William and Vera in Lambeth from 1952 to 1955.

However it looks as if they did all go as there's a burial record for William in Canada mentioning the two sons and Vera.

If both sets of records (ERs and burial in Ontario) refer to the same people then there should be some record of Vera and the boys crossing between the UK and Canada.

As William went by boat I would have expected the rest of the family to do likewise (flying might have been an option but I would have thought it unlikely?). I wonder whether anyone with access to international travel records might be able to find Vera and the boys please?

Thanks

Keith

????

is this william and vera


http://www.stthomastimesjournal.com/2011/06/03/eric-bunnells-people

vera and her sons fly to canada

Wiliam's passage
FMP - Passenger Lists

Passenger Lists leaving UK 1890-1960 Transcription

First name(s) William
Last name Cundy
Gender Male
Birth year 1923
Birth day 20
Birth month 10
Marital status M
Occupation TOOLROOM GRINDER
Departure year 1957
Departure day 5
Departure month 4
Departure port Liverpool
Destination port Quebec
Destination QUEBEC
Country Canada
Destination country Canada
Ship name Columbia
City LIVERPOOL
Ship destination port QUEBEC
Ship destination country CANADA
Number of passengers 0
Record set

Brilliant, SAFC that's just perfect! Thank you. [Thinks: why couldn't I find that ...?]

And yes, greyghost, that's the record of William going to Canada.

Very many thanks!

Keith

hi
KeithG

found by googling

vera cundy canada

Since the article says "Vera followed two months later, flying over with their own two boys." it must have been Jul/Aug 1957. There aren't that many Aircraft passenger lists in the public domain.

Got it

New York, Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
Vera F Cundy
Arrival Date: 5 Jun 1957
Port of Departure: London, England
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Airline: Pan American Airways

Travelling with Stephen W & Martin C

Can't find a border crossing or incoming to Canada record. We could probably assume they rejoined their husband/father within a week.

Thank you all once again. That article which safc found really was a gift for a family researcher. I wish everyone would take notes and then "publish" them like that!!

And DetEcTive found the airline record, I didn't know that any of those were published.

Keith

Just to add, 1957 Address given for William, 77, Larkhall Rise, London, SW4.

London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965 (Ancestry)

(not there on above 1957)

Chris :)

(apologies, as going out shortly, in case of reply)

Thanks Chris - although there's something strange there ...

The address on the emigration record was indeed 77 Larkhall Rise, but the ERs (that I've seen) were 33 (1952) and then 39 (1955) Tradescant Road. I need to look again for 1957. Thanks for the pointer! [The Tradescants, father and son, were interesting people, brought back lots of foreign species of plants from their world travels. Commemorated at St Mary at Lambeth.]

Keith

(1957/58 was below, Cooper?)

Chris :)

Marriages Dec 1938 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Cooper Grace E Hewstone Lambeth 1d 495
Hewstone John F Cooper Lambeth 1d 495


1939 Register (Find My Past)

77 Larkhall Rise , Wandsworth, London,
John F Hewstone 07 Sep 1912 Male ??? (Dresser Labourer. Steel Work) Married
Grace E Hewstone 07 Nov 1918 Female Wife Married


First name(s) JOHN FREDERICK
Last name HEWSTONE
Gender Male
Birth day 7
Birth month 9
Birth year 1912
Death quarter 4
Death year 1983
District Dunstable
County Bedfordshire
Volume 9
Page 0298

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills

(above 1984)


First name(s) GRACE ELLEN
Last name HEWSTONE
Gender Female
Birth day 7
Birth month 11
Birth year 1918
Death quarter 1
Death year 2004
District Bexley
District number 220/1
Register number A37C
Entry number 268
Date of registration mm/yy 0104
County Kent


(if below, not sure age of Vera?)

Births Dec 1918 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------------
Cooper Grace [F_] Stock Southwark 1d 132

(perhaps might be E)


Births Dec 1928 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------
Cooper Vera F Stock Southwark 1d 94

That makes sense, Chris, thank you for taking the trouble to chase it further.

Vera was indeed Vera F Cooper 1928 but I haven't traced her tree yet - had my hands full with Cundys . And that record explains the S middle name, I had her as Vera F S but then dropped the S as she seems to have done so throughout her life.

If you're in the mood for another little (related) puzzle, might you like to see what you can find for Albert Cundy 1902?

He married Louisa Maud Fairbrother in 1920 and was the father of the William Albert Cundy we've just been talking about.

He *seems* to have been a radio operator in the merchant marine but seems to have vanished in a puff of smoke (I hope not literally).

His second son Leslie E Cundy 1933 has a second birth record as Leslie E Scraggs, Louisa having married again in 1933. This suggests that Louisa married again pretty quickly after Albert left the stage but I have been unable to find any records of his leaving.

He did go to NZ in 1920, confusingly giving his intended place of permanent occupation as NZ. But then Louisa had William Albert Cundy in 1923. I have no idea what records there might be in NZ.

Keith

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19220603.2.13?query=albert cundy

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19220608.2.98?query=cundy navy

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/

(Newspapers)

(will look more later, but see above!)


http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7999270

(not him is it, written on, Rejected?)


Birth
CUNDY ALBERT J
28503/1901
THOMAS W
EMMA
SYDNEY

https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search?4


https://tinyurl.com/zyny93w

(family leaving above, from below link, Australian Newspapers)

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/search?adv=y


1911 (Find My Past)
Thomas William Cundy Head Married Male Grocer 35 1876 Devon Devonport
Emma Amelia Cundy Wife Married Female Assisting In The Business 38 1873 Devon Devonport
Emma Rosina Cundy Daughter - Female - 14 1897 London South Hackney
Thomas William Henry Cundy Son - Male - 13 1898 Australia Sydney
Albert Cundy Son - Male - 9 1902 Australia Sydney
Florrie Cundy Daughter - Female - 7 1904 Devon Plymouth
Grace Cundy Daughter - Female - 3 1908 Devon Plymouth
Address 4 Holborn Place Plymouth
Parish Plymouth
County Devon
Census reference RG14 PN12962 RG78 PN748 RD276 SD2 ED4 SN235
(says Married 15yrs, 5 children born, 5 living)


https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills

(above 1944, Emma Amelia, Thomas William Cundy)

Chris :)

New Zealand, Electoral Rolls, 1853-1981 (Ancestry)

Australia, Electoral Rolls, 1903-1980 (Ancestry)

(might be on above)


https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search

(for NZ)

That 1911 is the family, regrettably largely wiped out by the bombing of Plymouth in 1941:

http://www.devonheritage.org/Places/Plymouth/Plymouth5CtoD.htm
http://www.devonheritage.org/Places/Plymouth/Plymouth5PtoR.htm

but Albert had taken a boat to Oz with the intention of permanent residence in NZ:

Name: Albert Cundy
Gender: Male
Age: 19
Birth Date: abt 1901
Departure Date: 17 Jun 1920
Port of Departure: London, England
Destination Port: Sydney, Australia
Ship Name: Beltana
Shipping line: P & O Branch Service
Official Number: 131853
Master: B Jones Cornwell

Maybe he stayed in Oz, but assuming he travelled on to NZ then the newspaper reports you found could well be him. The bit about having left his wife rings true! And the "rejected" medal card ties in with the suspicions of the judge in NZ.

There doesn't seem to be a death record for Albert in NZ, I wonder where he ended up?

I haven't figured out yet what Thomas and Emma were doing in Oz but they were there ~1898 ~1901 from the births of their children.

Thanks also for the Cundys leaving Oz for the UK. And for the links to the various sources of non-UK information!

Keith

Keith ..

re these birth registrations

Births Dec 1918 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------------
Cooper Grace [F_] Stock Southwark 1d 132


Births Dec 1928 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------
Cooper Vera F Stock Southwark 1d 94


Stock is mother's maiden name, not another forename for either Grace or Vera

so she was registered as Vera F Cooper.


you should look for a Cooper - Stock marriage to find their parents

There are two possible marriages on freebmd

Marriages Sep 1915 (>99%)
Cooper William J Stock Fulham 1a 730
Stock Maud L Cooper Fulham 1a 730


Marriages Dec 1915 (>99%)
Cooper Alfred C Stock Southwark 1d 154
Stock Alice Cooper Southwark 1d 154

???? more siblings born in Southwark

Births Mar 1921 (>99%)

Cooper Henry W Stock Southwark 1d 229



???? from 1939 Register (on FMP)

Cooper Household (3 People) 51 , Southwark, London, England

First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Occupation
Alfred C Cooper 17 Feb 1892 Labourer (Municipal)
Alice Cooper 14 Mar 1891 Unpaid Domestic
Henry W Cooper 23 Feb 1921 Metal Worker

There is 1 Closed Record on the image .... indicating a person who is thought to be still alive.

That's possibly Vera as she emigrated to Canada, so they will not have received notification of her death.

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS19220511.2.38?query=cundy

There is another above 1922, amongst other snippets for year. The Navy record has to be downloaded (for price) at NA, you can use image viewer, to make out things, does look like 'Rejected' written across.

What does it state for Louisa on second marriage?...

Albert seems to disappear, looks like those pals he knows (and perhaps more Navy pals) are helping get him about, looks like he is flitting between Australia also...

Chris :)

Marriages Sep 1895 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------
Cundy Thomas William Stoke D. 5b 585
Drake Emma Amelia Stoke D. 5b 585

(looking at newspapers, (using) cundy Holborn, there is a snippet (amongst other items) for Son T W Cundy, Death 1938, amongst mourners...Mr. and Mrs. Hornbrook, Mr. and Mrs. C. Ryan, and Mr. and Mrs. Hannaford, brothers in law and sisters, Mr. C. Cundy cousin, and Mr. A. Leonard)

(not Albert Cundy as Leonard I wonder, lol) (Wills of Parents, 1944, is he named in them?)

Thank you SylviaInCanada - I have seen in a record somewhere, don't recall which one now, where Vera was listed as Vera F S, it was probably the first record I came across, so that was what I recorded. I subsequently noted that she was Vera F everywhere else, so I dropped the S too. The Stock connection gave a possible explanation for that first S.

Thanks also for finding the 1939 entry for them. The Southwark location argues also for the Alfred & Alice marriage.

There are also two possible births:

Name: Vera F Cooper
Mother's Maiden Surname: Evans
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1928
Registration district: Islington
Inferred County: London
Volume Number: 1b
Page Number: 360

or

Name: Vera F Cooper
Mother's Maiden Surname: Stock
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1928
Registration district: Southwark <<< more probable?
Inferred County: London
Volume Number: 1d
Page Number: 94

Sounds as if Albert was a bit of a ladies man, making friends and then making off ... Thanks for those pointers, Chris.

Keith

(perhaps that Son 1921, was Henry Woodward Cooper, same as Father named for Alfred on below, London, Ancestry)

(Henry Woodward Cooper occ. Carpenter)

Chris :)

Alice Stock
abt 1891 12 Dec 1915 Alfred Charles Cooper Holy Trinity, Newington

Marriages Dec 1915 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------------
Cooper Alfred C Stock Southwark 1d 154
Stock Alice Cooper Southwark 1d 154


First name(s)
HENRY WOODWARD
Last name COOPER
Gender Male
Birth day 22
Birth month 2
Birth year 1921
Death quarter 4
Death year 1999
District Bedford
District number 3091G
Register number G1D
Entry number 144
Date of registration mm/yy 1199
County Bedfordshire


COOPER, ALFRED CHARLES (LEWIS)
GRO Reference: 1892 M Quarter in ST SAVIOUR LONDON Volume 01D Page 45


Marriages Sep 1887 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
COOPER Henry Woodward Camberwell 1d 1285
Lewis Elizabeth Edith Camberwell 1d 1285


Cooper Alfred Charles 1892 — 1914 British Army Service Records Bermondsey, Surrey, England (Find My Past)