Genealogy Chat

Emma Elizabeth Dobbins 1889 FreeBMD born Apr-May-Jun Quarter, Poplar, London
1891 Census, age 2 Lived at 45 Gosterwood Street, Deptford.London
1901 Census, age 12 Daughter, lived at 54 Gosterwood Street, Deptford.London Shown in error as Emma E S Bobbins
1909 married Arthur Albert Lloyd Jul/Sep quarter St Olive Bermondsey.London
1911 lived 22 Oareboro Rd.Deptford.London. Age 22 Wife
1925 lived Hosier St,Deptford.London Age 35 (living with Mr.Barber first name not known) had 2 children with him alongside Ellen Lloyd step daughter of Mr Barber
Emma E Dobbins d.o.d 1931 died December Deptford.London. Age 42 (shown as Emma E.S.Barber also shown on BDM as Lloyd two records)
It appears that their two children Violet and Eric died young at 3 days and 19 years old and never married. No further children found except Ellen Lloyd. So who was Mr Barber as no marriage seems to exist and did his step daughter Ellen Lloyd have a family. Thanks for any assistance.

1911 census for reference. Ellen Lloyd aged 1

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
22 Oareboro Road Deptford S E, St Paul Deptford, London, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place
Arthur Lloyd Head Married Male Printer On The Railway 24 1887 Deptford in Kent
E Lloyd Wife Married Female - 22 1889 Poplar Middlesex
E Lloyd Mother Widow Female Charwoman 44 1867 Deptford Kent
John Lloyd Brother - Male Van Boy On Railway 16 1895 Deptford Kent
Mary Lloyd Sister - Female School 13 1898 Poplar Middlesex
Ellen Lloyd - - Female Van Boy On Railway 11 1900 Poplar Middlesex
Phoebe Lloyd - - Female Van Boy On Railway 8 1903 Deptford Kent
Ellen Lloyd Daughter - Female - 1 1910 Bermondsey Kent <<<<<<<<<<<<
Kate Brown Boarder Married Female Dress Maker 19 1892 Deptford Kent

Possibly this birth showing a second name as census shows born Bermondsey - St Olave is an alternative name for St Olave, Bermondsey


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Jun 1910 (>99%)

LLOYD Ellen Elizabeth St Olave 1d 169

London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965

Name: Emma Elizabeth Lloyd
Year: 1927
County or Borough: Lewisham
Ward or Division/Constituency: Deptford and Finsbury
Street address: 33 HOSIER STREET

At the same address is
Alfred James BARBER

They were still there in 1930, but with 2 x Alfred James Barber - Snr & Jr.

On a free search of the 1939 Register, this could be one of the A J Barber's.

1939 Register Transcription (Preview)

Barber Household Deptford, London, England
First name(s) Last name(s) Birth year
Alfred J Barber 1913
1 more person who is officially closed
ie born after 1915 and presumed either to be living or died after 1991
.........

This could be the death of Alfred Snr
Alfred James Barber
Birth Date: 13 Apr 1888
Date of Registration: Dec 1973
Age at Death: 85
Registration district: Greenwich
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 5b
Page: 1321

And Alfred Jr
Name: Alfred James Barber
Birth Date: 21 May 1913
Date of Registration: Mar 1983
Age at Death: 69
Registration district: Greenwich
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 12
Page: 1402

So Emma probably partnered with Alfred b 1888

London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965

Emma Elizabeth with Arthur Albert up to 1923 listings

Name: Emma Elizabeth Lloyd
Year: 1920
County or Borough: London
Ward or Division/Constituency: Chelsea and Deptford
Street address: 48 Rectory Building

On her own 1924

Alfred James Barber
CrematedOn:11 October 1973
Recorded at: Eltham Crematorium (Greenwich)
Date of death 07 October 1973

Alfred James Barber
CrematedOn:14 February 1983
Recorded at: Eltham Crematorium (Greenwich)
Date of death 03 February 1983

From https://www.deceasedonline.com/servlet/GSDOSearch

You can purchase a scan of the cremation record which will tell you the last known address and who arranged the funeral. Its possible that the one in 1983 is a transcript.

This could be a coincidence, but IF this is Arthur Albert still alive in 1957, then it could explain why Emma Elizabeth and Mr Barber didn't marry.

Name: Arthur A Lloyd
Year: 1957
County or Borough: Lewisham
Ward or Division/Constituency: Deptford
Street address: 13 Dene Close Dundalk

This could be Alfred J Barber's marriage

Name: Alfred James Barber - tin worker
Estimated birth year: abt 1888
Age: 22
Spouse: Mary Ann Richards
Spouse Age: 19
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 10 Sep 1910
Parish: St Mary, Rotherhithe
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Alfred James Barber - sail maker
Spouse Father: William Richards
Register Type: Parish Register

of 628 St Mary Church St

The mothers maiden name matches with the birth reg of Alfred Jr
Births Jun 1913 (>99%)
Barber Alfred J Richards Greenwich 1d 1856

That's interesting greyghost!

If the following is correct for Alfred J's first partnership, he would have been free to marry

MARY A
Last name BARBER
Gender Female
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1892
Age 29
Death quarter 4
Death year 1921 <<<<
District GREENWICH
County London
Volume 1D
Page 1025
Country England
Record set England & Wales deaths 1837-2007

Her burial

name Mary Ann Barber
BuriedOn:
05 January 1922
Recorded at: Brockley Cemetery (Lewisham)

https://www.deceasedonline.com/servlet/GSDOSearch

Just adding any possible marriage refs based on the location

Marriages Mar 1936 (>99%)
Lloyd Ellen Parker Greenwich 1d 1106
PARKER Arthur Lloyd Greenwich 1d 1106


First name(s) ELLEN E
Last name LLOYD
Marriage quarter 4
Marriage year 1937
Registration month -
Spouse's last name GOLDER
District SOUTHWARK
District number -
County London
Country England
Volume 1D
Page 62

MarriageFinder™ ELLEN E LLOYD married FREDERICK A GOLDER
..........


First name(s) ELLEN E
Last name LLOYD
Marriage quarter 1
Marriage year 1942
pouse's last name STROUD
District BATTERSEA
District number -
County London
Country England
Volume 1D
Page 703
ELLEN E LLOYD married ERNEST R STROUD

The marriage to Arthur Parker is a possibility, but it does need the MC to confirm

1939 register
Parker Household Greenwich, London, England
First name(s) Last name(s) Birth year
Ellen Parker 1909
Arthur Parker 1906

Dunno - perhaps not

London ER - sharing with 2 other ladies
Name: Ellen Elizabeth Lloyd
Year: 1938
County or Borough: Lewisham
Ward or Division/Constituency: Deptford
Street address: 52 Deptford Church

We forgot to ask the obvious - have you searched all members trees to see if anyone lists Ellen Elizabeth Lloyd? They may know what became of her.

Thank you greyghost and detective
I wonder if Emma was a bit naughty and never oficially divorced her first husband Arthur Loyd but moved in with Arthur Barber.
Rumour has it that Arthur Albert Lloyd constantly went to sea although he was a railway printer in 1911. There must be shipping records to confirm the rumour.
;-)

Although divorce was possible, it was quite expensive to arrange. There are many couples who seperated and just became known as Mrs (new partner).
Some even entered into bigamus 2nd (or 3rd!) marriages

I think Alfred James Barber junior was born in Greenwich in 1929 as there is a birth with this name so probably both Alfred and Emma's son. This would rule out a death in 1983.

Do you mean this death?

Name: Alfred James Barber
Birth Date: 21 May 1913
Date of Registration: Mar 1983
Age at Death: 69
Registration district: Greenwich
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 12
Page: 1402

It does tie in with this birth

Births Jun 1913 (>99%)
Barber Alfred J Richards Greenwich 1d 1856

It would be unusual to name a second son the same as one still living.
The one listed above is likely to be the one on the ER with Alfred James Barber (his father) and Emma Elizabeth Lloyd in 1930.
A child born in 1929 wouldn't be eligible to vote until 1950.

Were have you found an Arthur J Dobbins/Barber/Lloyd born 1929 Lewisham?
Could you copy and paste the entry please?

Sorry - signing off for the night