Genealogy Chat

A tree on ancestry, with a picture of John, has this for his parents.



David Blackburn
Birth 1799 in Kirby, Yorkshire, England
Death 4 April 1861 in Richmond, Yorkshire North Riding



Margaret Hird
Birth 1791 in Marrick, Yorkshire, England
Death 27 Aug 1863 in Marske, Yorkshire, England

Children



Mary Blackburn
1827 –

James Blackburn
1831 –

John Blackburn
1831 – 1901

Jane Blackburn
1835 –

(should read Blackburn)

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Hazelhaw, Marske, Richmond, Yorkshire, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Gender Age Birth year Birth place
David Blackham Male 40 1801 Yorkshire, England
Transcription
Margeret Blackham Female 45 1796 Yorkshire, England
Transcription
Mary Blackham Female 10 1831 Yorkshire, England
Transcription
James Blackham Male 10 1831 Yorkshire, England
Transcription
John Blackburn Male 8 1833 Yorkshire, England
Transcription
Jane Blackham Female 5 1836 Yorkshire, England



1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Hayelhow, Marske, Richmond, Yorkshire, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
David Blackburn Head Married Male 52 1799 Farm Laborer Kirby, Yorkshire, England
Transcription
Margaret Blackburn Wife Married Female 58 1793 - Marrick, Yorkshire, England
Transcription
James Blackburn Son Unmarried Male 20 1831 Farm Laborer Marske, Yorkshire, England
Transcription
Jane Blackburn Daughter Unmarried Female 15 1836 Scholar Marske, Yorkshire, England




National Burial Index for England & Wales Transcription

Learn more
Print transcription Attach to tree
First name(s) DAVID
Last name BLACKBURN
Birth year 1799
Death year 1861
Age 62
Burial year 1861
Burial day 8
Burial month 4
Place MARSKE [NR RICHMOND]
Church description ST CUTHBERT
Church denomination ANGLICAN
County Yorkshire, Yorkshire (North Riding)

Elizabeth Nicholl
Birth About 1831 in Crosby Garrett, Westmorland, England
Death April 1909 in Richmond, Yorkshire North Riding, United Kingdom


PARENTS


George Nicholl
1799 – 1870

Margaret Taylor
1802 – 1865


CHILDREN


Margaret Blackburn
1855 – 1919

William Blackburn
1858 –

John Blackburn
1860 – 1935

James Blackburn
1862 –

Edward Blackburn
1864 –

David Blackburn
1866 –

Thomas Blackburn
1867 –

George Blackburn
1868 –

Geoffrey Blackburn
1871 –

Betsy Annie Blackburn
1874 –


The person who owns this tree appears to descend from Margaret 1855.

So all the searching for William was a complete waste of time

Yes that is the record I found, all details and date the same but in family search.org the marriage was at St Cuthberts in Durham????
Why are there two with the same details but for different places????

That all makes Much more sense. Other than the same marriage on the same day at two different places which I still don't understand these records seem to be much more accurate and more likely..
Sorry for wasting everyone's time on looking for William and the mystery wife but hopefully that may help someone who is looking for that Blackburn!
Love Yorkshire so great to have some family roots there!
As ever thank you you amazing community of sleuths and experts out there helping us beginners. <3 Jo

When researching, the sensible course of action is to get documentary proof.

In this case, you should have got a copy of John's marriage cert.

Name: John Blackburn
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 12 Aug 1832
Baptism Place: Marske By Richmond,York,England
Father: David Blackburn
Mother: Margaret Hird
FHL Film Number: 207559


Elizabeth Nicholl

in the England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915


Name: Elizabeth Nicholl
Registration Year: 1853
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Teesdale
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Durham
Volume: 10a
Page: 179
Records on Page:
Name
John Blackburn
Robert Copeland
Elizabeth Nicholl
Mary Spenceley

which is also


England Marriages 1538-1973 Transcription
Print transcription Attach to tree
First name(s) Elizabeth
Last name Nicholl
Name note -
Marriage year 1853
Marriage date 09 Jul 1853
Marriage place St. Cuthbert'S, Durham, Durham, England
Father's first name(s) George
Father's last name Nicholl
Mother's first name(s) -
Mother's last name -
Spouse's first name(s) John
Spouse's last name Blackburn
Spouse's father's first name(s) David
Spouse's father's last name Blackburn
Spouse's mother's first name(s) -
Spouse's mother's last name -
Residence Durham, Durham, England

Are you a member of ancestry as there are a few trees with photos of John and Elizabeth.

Also John 1860 and his family and Margaret 1855 and her family.

Alviegal many thanks for your work on this. The records you have found for Elizabeth Nichol do work perfectly, in all the census since she married John Blackburn she is shown as having been born in Yorkshire. Her parents being George Nichol and Margaret Taylor of Westmoreland, N Yorks checks out in the 1841 c with her at home and the same family living in the same place in 1851 c though she is now working as a house servant for the Bowron family at Scargill, Durham, Teesdale District in 1851 C. This moves her slightly away from Yorkshire to marry John Blackburn at St Cuthberts, Teesdale Durham in 1853.
Sadly I can't get the parents you found for John Blackburn ( David and Margaret Hird) to work at all as everything I have show him as being born in Stockton on Tees, Durham. He worked as an engine fitter in the iron works. The parents you have found never left Yorkshire. Also the children you listed for John and Elizabeth don't give me the Elizabeth Jane Blackburn by 1861 in Stockton that I need to move forward a generation.
Their marriage at both Teesdale and Barningham, Yorks on the same day is odd. All the other people with them on the tree and photographs are for the parents you have found as per the marriage fathers details.
All our family are from the Northumberland / Durham area and I have documentary proof for the first few generations. Perhaps the double location marriage found with the fathers is not completely correct? The William Bkackburn father I started looking for fits in location, occupations and children.
As Jacqueline has suggested I should purchase a copy of the marriage certificate and stop taking up all your valuable time.
May just have to leave this one a blank on the tree but everyone's help and assistance is very much appreciated.
Jo
<3

Do let us know if you get a copy of the certificate Jo. I would love to know if it provides any further information.

Good luck, Liz

Thanks Liz, I hate dead ends so will let you know if I get anywhere.
Appreciate all your help. Jo

Jacqueline - Re: "The border between Northumberland and Durham has always been the River Tyne"

That's never been the case.- it follows the Tyne downstream from Wylam, but at Wylam it heads S until it hits the Derwent at Hamsterley. It follows the Derwent until abt 5km from its source when it heads SW to include Allenheads and Coalcleugh.
Abt 1km S of Coalcleugh the boundaries of Northumberand, Durham and Cumberland meet.

Actually, the Northumberland-Durham boundary was more complicated in the early 19th cent (until 1844). There were detached bits of Co Durham scattered around what later became the Northumberland I grew up with. The largest chunk was around Berwick - the western part of this chunk was called Norhamshire and included Norham;. the eastern part was called Islandshire and included Holy Is.

These are the hits from FS for my g grandad's grandparents and uncle

William Slessor
marriage: 21 December 1820 Longside, Aberdeen, Scotland
spouse: Christian Slessor

William Slessor
marriage: 23 December 1820 Old Deer, Aberdeen, Scotland
spouse: Christian Slessor


Robert Slessor
marriage: 14 December 1850 Cruden, Aberdeen, Scotland
spouse: Jane Arthur

Robert Slessor
marriage: 19 December 1850 Ellon, Aberdeen, Scotland
spouse: Jane Arthur


So why two dift marr dates in two difft places?
Well of course, there weren't, but the collection "Scotland, Marriages, 1561-1910" actually includes both marrs and banns, and here, the earlier date is when the banns were called for the third time, and the later date is for the marr. In both marrs, the couple lived in difft parishes, so banns were called in both parishes, but the marr took place as usual in the bride's parish - in one case in the bride's home (which was not too uncommon in Scotland at that time).

Thank you for the explanation, that does make sense. In my case they are at Durham and Yorkshire. Did the same thing happen in England?

David - Re: "Did the same thing happen in England?"

What same thing?
Marrs in England had to take place in a registered building, so marr in folks' homes needed special licences and permissions.

Marr by banns required banns be read in every parish the officiating priest said they had a special connection to, so would certainly include the parishes where each had homes. To get round the doubled cost, you'll often see the groom take up residence (at least nominally) in the bride's home, or maybe next door (with the connivance of the neighbours).

Whether the data collection includes banns with marrs is a question of just what the collection contains - sometimes it does, but you need to look at the collection descriptions and the record source details.

Here's the GRO hit:
Marriages Sep 1853 (>99%)
BLACKBURN John Teesdale 10a 179
NICHOLL Elizabeth Teesdale 10a 179

A local look up at http://gro.durham.gov.uk/ gets:
Marriage certificate for:
Name: BLACKBURN, John
Year: 1853
Other index entries for this marriage:
NICHOLL, Elizabeth
Clicking on the postal application form gets the local ref code, viz:
Register No. - Entry No. - District
CBARN1 entry 60

That looks to me like the code for this church:
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/145504
[The postfix 1 indicates it's in the first marr register for this church]

Barningham is abt 10km SE of Barnard Castle.

The above is the official marr - it's unclear how this reconciles with:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NN5G-5YY

Thank you so much. Lovely to see the church and didn't know about that Durham records site, have bought copies of certificates through the main UK gov site before and searched on another Durham site, looking for records in the county is much better. Thanks again.

England Marriages 1538-1973 Transcription
Print transcription Attach to tree
First name(s) John
Last name Blackburn
Name note -
Marriage year 1853
Marriage date 09 Jul 1853
Marriage place Barningham, York, England
Father's first name(s) David
Father's last name Blackburn
Mother's first name(s) -
Mother's last name -
Spouse's first name(s) Elizabeth
Spouse's last name Nicholl
Spouse's father's first name(s) George
Spouse's father's last name Nicholl
Spouse's mother's first name(s) -
Spouse's mother's last name -
Residence Barningham, York, England
Place Barningham
County Yorkshire
Country England
Record set England Marriages 1538-1973
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from Great Britain

David - you should check out

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/local_bmd

for the other Co Durham indexes - most are only partial. NB S Tyne has a web page onsite giving their codes for most? of their C of E churches.

Although the local office holds the B & D regos that the informants signed, most (maybe all in Co Durham) local offices don't yet have the capability of incorporating scans into the certs as the GRO does, but all the GRO can scan is their backup copies made in the local offices at the ends of the quarters.

The GROS did it the other way round, and Edinburgh holds the original rego's, and the backup copies are held locally. My ggg grandad Wm Slessor was the informant for his last grandchild's birth, and I do appreciate seeing a scan of his signature. My gg grandad was the informant on the other post-1854 birth (i.e., in Scottish civil registration times), so I can see his signature too.