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possibly leaping to a conclusion????
1861 Census
Name: Mary Ann Collins
Age: 11
Estimated birth year: 1850
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: William Collins
Mother's name: Elisabeth Collins
Gender: Female
Where born: Wednesbury, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Headingley
Ecclesiastical parish: Burley
Town: Burley
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Hunslet
Sub-registration district: Kirkstall
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Household schedule number: 28
Piece: 3353
Folio: 111
Page Number: 6
William Collins 41 Puddler of Iron
Elisabeth Collins 39
Joseph Collins 18
Mary Ann Collins 11
William Collins 9
Elisabeth Collins 5
Henry Collins 7
Address:- 16 Willow St, Village of Burley
Father is a Puddler, not a Pedler as on the marriage certificate ....................... but that could be vicar mis-hearing?????
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sure looks like it Sylvia!
Mary Ann would have been a little previous when she called herself Oxley in June of the same year, since she didn't marry until December, but that's not unusual
George Watson witnessed Thomas Oxley's marriage to Mary Ann
and then Thomas Oxley witnessed his sister Sarah Jane's marriage to George Watson
both marriages showing father Thomas Oxley brick maker
kind of a perfect fit :-)
oops your second message
I actually thought I had investigated the Collins marriage, but not as far as you did and you do seem to have nailed it
I think Puddler/Pedlar is one of the more minor mishearings/misunderstandings we have seen!
Thomas Oxley also worked in iron making so it fits.
Mary Ann Collins is the right age to fit with Mary Ann Oxley in 1871, and everything else fits.
I think the reason I was suspicious of that marriage at first
Marriages Dec 1866
Collins Mary A Kirkstall 9b 364
OXLEY Thomas Kirkstall 9b 364
is that it was registered in a completely different registration district
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/kirkstall.html
oh no, here we are, it does cover
Headingley with Burley
so there we are (it was in Leeds later)
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/leeds.html
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a puddler would have worked in the tinplate industry - as did my paternal line
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I believe a tinplate puddler would have been in Wales, Ann
this was Yorkshire and the 1861 census does say 'Puddler of Iron'
with fits with the other iron foundry occupations the men here held
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I have been a long time deliberating all the information received during the last few days and have finally decided the course of action I must take in an effort to resolve the situation. I am also aware that I have, until now, stuck rigidly to the notion that Thomas Oxley wandered aimlessly around the country during the 1860's ending his fruitless journey in meeting Ada Carter and creating the "Carter family" for himself and the Oxley/Carter mystery for me.
I haven't any idea yet what the outcome is likely to be but in principle I shall be applying for a number of BMD certificates which I hope will answer many questions which require answers. The first that comes to mind is the certificate of marriage between Thomas Oxley and Mary Ann Collins (9B 364) in Kirkstall on 23rd December 1866 and between Sarah Jane Oxley and George Watson (9B 366) on 25th June 1966 also in Kirkstall. This will be followed by a number of birth certificates that i have in mind.
I'm afraid that all I have to offer for the time being but I shall keep you all informed. As always I would welcome any suggestions that could be helpful, and may I say again and again many thanks for not giving up on me !!!!!!!!!!!!
Best regards - Bert
<3
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Here you are Bert - Bert sent me a PM because he thought his post had got lost in the ether but I think maybe you didn't go back to page 2 after posting maybe.
I don't actually think you need those certificates -- they aren't going to tell you any more than what is here in the thread already, I think.
for the first, you have:
Name: Thomas Oxley
Birth Year: abt 1845
Age: 21
Marriage or Bann Date: 23 Dec 1866
Parish: Burley, St Matthias
Father's name: Thomas Oxley
Spouse's Name: Mary Anne Collins
Spouse's Father's Name: William Collins
Thomas - Labourer - Bachelor
Address:- Burley
Father Occupation:- Brick-maker
Mary Anne - Spinster - no occupation shown
Address:- Burley
Father occupation:- Pedler
Witnesses:- George Watson and William Oxley
and for the second you have:
Sarah Jane Oxley @ 1837 married 25/6/1866 to George Watson in Burley near Leeds.her dad was Thomas Oxley a brick maker.
Witnessed by Thomas and Mary Ann Oxley.
... and that is all the info you will get from the certificates.
So I'd start with a birth certificate -- actually these two
Births Dec 1845
Oxley Thomas Ecclesfield 22 139
... as being probably your Thomas
Births Jun 1869
Oxley Thomas Leeds 9b 465
... as being probably the child of the Oxley+Collins marriage
they should give you enough info to tell whether these are all the same Thomas, son of Thomas the brickmaker
and not to worry, we women who do this stuff are used to the men sticking rigidly to their wrongheaded ideas
:-D :-D :-D :-D
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Thanks for coming to my rescue !!
I must always remember there may be more than one page. I have checked the 'Preview' facility and it does't appear to be functioning - maybe I'm not using it properly.
I shall follow your advice and concentrate on the birth certificates you have suggested.
As a rule I usually purchase BMD certificates only when I can be sure that the information I shall receive is what I wish to see and keep for family research records.
But, of course, there are times when rules have to be broken I guess.
I am, of course referring to
Births Dec 1845
Oxley Thomas Ecclesfield 22 139
Births Jun
Oxley Thomas Leeds 9b 465
I'll be sure to keep you posted
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WILFRED OXLEY, my grandfather was born on 23rd September 1874
His parents were THOMAS OXLEY & ADA OXLEY (formerly Carter) as shown on birth certificate & resident at 37 Hillside, Chesterfield. However that would be the last
time Wilfred would be able to use the Oxley surname until 1900 when he married his wife, Sarah Minnie Snell on April 2nd 1900 , following his father's death in 1899.
For the record a brief history of the Oxley/Carter family is as follows :-
1841 Census in Barnsley
Thomas Oxley, Head 40 - Ag. lab.(subsequently brickmaker}
Sarah Oxley, wife 30
William 13
Henry 12
James 10
Ann 6
Sarah 4
Ellen 2
Margaret 10wks
1851 Census in Barnsley
Sarah Oxley, Head (widow) 43 - receiving parochial relief
Sarah Jane Oxley 12
Ellen Oxley 9
Margaret 7
Thomas 5
Joseph Moss, lodger 23
1861 Census in Barnsley
Sarah Oxley, Head 50
Sarah Jane 23
Margaret 20
Thomas15
Sarah Ann 8mths
1871 Census in Leeds
Thomas Oxley, Head 25 Lab. at foundry
Mary Ann Oxley,Wife 21 - formerly Mary Ann Collins (See marriage certificate
9b 364 Kirkstall - Dec 1866)
Thomas 2 - (See birth certificate 09b 465 Leeds)
Joseph 6mths
1881 Census in Leeds
Mary Ann Oxley, Head 33
Note absence of Thomas Oxley Head - see reappearance but as Thomas Carter in !881 Census in Chesterfield below
Thomas Oxley 12
Herbert Oxley 8
1881 Census in Chesterfield
Thomas Carter, Head 34 - Iron fitter & turner
Ada Carter, Wife 26
Wilfred 6
Sarah 1
1891 Census in Chesterfield
Thomas Carter, Head 39 - Steam engine fitter
Mary Ann Carter, Wife 28 - This is Mary Ann Hewitt, Thomas's third wife, They were
married on 28th February 1887, the marriage certificate confirming this.Thomas's
second wife Ada died in 1885.
Wilfred 16
Sarah 11
James A 9
Frederick Hewitt, stepson 5
Fanny V 2
Sarah Jane Watson, Visitor 52 (formerly Sarah Jane Oxley who married George
Watson in Burley, Leeds in 1866, the marriage being witnessed by Thomas and
Mary Ann Oxley, and would confirm that Sarah Jane was the sister of Thomas
(See 1861 Census)
Events
1895 Mary Ann Carter died
1899 Thomas Carter died
1900 Wilfred Oxley(now his true name confirmed married Sarah Minnie Snell
on Aril 2nd 1900 - 7b 609)
1901 Census in Staveley, Chesterfield
Wilfred Oxley, Head 26 - Blacksmith
Sarah Minnie Oxley, Wife 23
Minnie 0
The history of the Oxley family as stated above, together with the research required
to solve the Oxley/Carter mystery has been quite demanding, but quite interesting. I was somewhat surprised, but relieved, when I found Thomas had married Mary Ann
Collins in 1866, which indeed was the piece of the jigsaw which solved the mystery
Many thanks, once again, to the team of members of GR for all the help & guidance
over the past few weeks, with a special thanks to Ann Cardiff & JoonieCloonie and I was never in doubt that you would see things through to the end.
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