Genealogy Chat

SylviainCanada, you have just made me think about traditions and my own baptism...:-) and I find that my parents observed the same traditions, although we none of us are from Lancashire, so maybe the tradition wasn't regional but national.

I was baptised in the late 1950's and had 2 godmothers and 1 godfather (2 aunts and a grandfather).
One godmother, mum's eldest sister, was not present at the baptism as she had emigrated to Australia some years before I was born, yet she is named on my Bapt Cert.
My middle name is the Christian name of the other godmother, the one who was present,, whether that had anything to do with it I don't know..

Ah - just looked up the name of the above daughter. Though unrelated to my middle name, it is a form of my mother's younger sister's name.....

Thanks, Sylvia - that could be useful.

My mother's family were quite conventional, and I remember she described her mother as 'quite Victorian'. (As far as things like this go, though they were unusually forward-looking in things like education for girls).

However, my grandmother had a lifelong friend whose family weren't related to hers but were regarded and referred to as if they were (and vice versa). So my godmother might have been that friend. Or her daughter, who I remember from my childhood and always kept in touch with my mother (until my mother's death in 1969 that is, by which time I was an adult).

I must chase up that connection. I've been meaning to anyway ( in case someone still alive remembers my mother, and can help to fill out my very sketchy picture of her life). I only remember their Christian names, but (thanks to a few of my mother's papers surviving) I have 1or 2 addresses from the 1950s which may be a lead.

I suppose a baptismal record (if any) would be the only possible paper trail left from being a godparent?

In Lancashire, at least in the 1940s and 1950s, it was far more common to ask relations to be godparents for your children than to ask a friend.

and they were not always in the same country ....................


For example, my mother was born in 1903, her mother's sister had emigrated to the US in 1902, just 3 days after she and my grandmother had each married.

Aunt Hannah in NJ was my mother's godmother ........... and she never mentioned anyone else.


It was traditional for there to be 3 godparents ................ girls had 2 godmothers and 1 godfather, and boys had 2 godfathers and 1 godmother.

Of course, this was not a strict rule!

I think the family members senior to me would have had a very good idea who my godmother was, Patchem (It's just that they're all dead).

My godmother herself may not have lived to keep in touch for long; I don't know what generation she is/was. Or in what country. For instance, it's possible she was my great-aunt in Australia, who was a churchgoer, had a strong sense of duty and corresponded assiduously. But she was only able to travel to the UK a few times in her life, and I don't remember meeting her as a child.

On the other hand, she could have been from my parents' generation, or a little younger than them. In which case I think she would have been a friend rather than a relation (the only possible relative I know of is my mother's younger sister, but in that case my mother would have called her Margaret). She said the pendant was from 'your godmother', which suggests I wasn't familiar with her.

If I did have a youngish godmother with good health (and luck), there's a chance she's still alive. If she is, another reason to contact her is a chance to try and fill in some of these big gaps! (I've been trying to locate family friends who might still be alive, for the same reason).

Oh right

I find it strange that there was a section for godparents to be entered on my dads parish register..... But nothing entered. He has no idea who they were, not that it matters now

Jax

godparents have always been important in the CofE ............... going back hundreds of years.

They are the ones who promised to see that the child was brought up correctly, both spiritually and worldly


It is in recent times that they seem to have lost this role ................ or rather ignored it.



I remember reading somewhere years ago that minor lords, barons etc, would ask a wealthier or better connected friend or acquaintance to be godfather (or even godmother) to a child. The child would then be named after that godparent ........................

and the request and naming may be repeated for a later child, or even a third child


It seems that sometimes subsequent children with the same name may not necessarily be named for a dead child :-D .........


If I remember correctly, this practice was common in the 14th / 15th centuries, and was more prevalent in certain counties in England





and to answer your question, patchem ...................


I think one thing that has happened in the last 100 years or so, is that people have moved much further distances than at any other time.

It's hard to keep in contact, or to watch over a child, if the family or you have moved to another continent, or the other end of the UK.

Spiritual upbringing of the child, and guardian if the parents die.

So rather an important role, I always assumed.

I take it this godparent thing is fairly new.... 20th century??

I thought it was just a thing our ancestors did because it was expected...... Doubt whether they held parties and got gifts

I found a couple the other day where a child was baptised the 18th Nov and buried on the 19th Nov..... And another that was baptised the same day his mother was buried.... Not a joyous occasion :-(

I appreciate that I am being slightly controversial, but what were these godparents doing if you (any of you) had no idea who they were?

What was the point of asking them to be godparents?

How did they agree if they had so little intention of staying in touch?

When I was a teenager, my mother gave me a little gold and amethyst pendant she'd been looking after for me, and said it was from my godmother. That's all I know.
(Plus what it looked like; a very hard-up period meant I had to sell it about 10 years later, but I have a photographic memory).

I have my CofE baptismal certificate from 1940 ..................... no godparents named on it

I know my mother's younger brother and wife were both godparents, only from what I've been told and the fact that they gave me a silver bracelet for my 21st birthday (a traditional gift in the area where I was born from godparent to goddaughter)



I have no idea as to the 3rd godparent ......... or even if I had another one.

Wow! Thank you all for your help. I haven't had time to read it properly, but I'll look into all your suggestions as soon as I can (it'll probably take a week or two of spare time).

Just a few initial thoughts;
If there was a christening, my father probably wouldn't have needed any more time off than usual to get to it. As a chemist he was in a 'reserved occupation', and his war work was at ICI in Manchester (which was probably how he met my mother). She was in the ATS when they married, and they sent her down south at some point, but during her pregnancy she was discharged and returned to Urmston. He was at ICI until I was about 10 months old, during which they both lived in the Urmston house. So a church in that area seems likely (and I know the family were C of E, so that narrows it down a bit).
I haven't seen any documentation re his ICI period (apart from a references letter on leaving). Maybe the work was classified (it did involve testing tyres and plastic explosives). If so, perhaps he died before he felt free to talk about it. (He had to promise to 'observe the Company's secrets', in any case). So no clues in that direction.

No baptismal certificate has come to light among family (and it's very unlikely any more papers of mine will).

The ones I've seen were for St George's, Gravesend and were on Medway's City Ark. Unfortunately they have recently implimented their 100 year rule and have now removed them. :-|

Ive just been looking at Hampshire Baptisms I have on 7 inch fiche ,,,,dates from 1843 though to 1960,,,,,,,no godparents are down on any of the entries,Cof E.

A few years back I had much the same query.
My parents could only remember one godparent but not the (RC) church where I was baptised. Luckily, they remembered that afterwards, those who had attended my baptism, went back to my grandmother's house for refreshments.

So I looked on google maps, and also used google, and managed to identify the two nearest RC churches to my grandmother's house.
I wrote to them both requesting information and, if possible, a copy of my baptism certificate.
After a few days one of them very kindly sent it to me, free of charge :-D :-D
It's written in Latin, but was easy enough to decipher, particularly the names are recognisable enough.

P.S. Just thought of something - do you have a middle name? It may be a clue if your parents followed the tradition of giving you the name of your godmother as your middle name.

I found my dads baptism record on seax (essex records) although there was a space for god parents none were mentioned and he also has his cert and none mentioned on that either

Just to add none of the children had god parents mentioned on the page

In England, godparents weren't usually identified in the early C of E registers, but usually are in the modern records - the change seems to occur around WW2.

I haven't seen enough English RC records to say what was happening with them.

=====================

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/448/archives_and_local_studies/4260/research_service

The church website is at:
http://www.stmichaelsflixton.co.uk/
but the 1945 baptismal register is already deposited in Manchester Archive.

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/ have only transcribed baptisms to 1894

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=2960 only has baptisms to 1915

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1®ion=UNITED_KINGDOM_IRELAND
In particular: https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1788853
only seems to have baptisms to 1894. I didn't check if they were indexed.


http://www.manchester.gov.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?categoryID=448&documentID=464
Unpublished archives
To see unpublished items, like minutes, diaries and registers, search the Greater Manchester Lives catalogue at www.gmlives.org.uk. You must book at least one working day in advance to see most of the archives but some can take up to two weeks to retrieve from storage. These are marked 'This material is stored off-site' in the catalogue.


[Archive] GB127.L141, Collection (Fonds), Flixton, St. Michael (Manchester Libraries, Information and Archives)
Records of the Incumbent including: early registers 1570-1812; baptism registers 1813-1990; marriage registers 1754-1993; burial registers 1813-1873; draft or copy registers 1811-1886; banns book 1825-1991; confimration registers 1942-1972;
http://www.gmlives.org.uk/

Probally DET,,,,,I havnt seen one,only RC,where names have been given,

Even my mums,no godparents are down. :-)

Justs a memory jolt,!,,,,,,,sometimes they are on the acutal baptism certificate given to the parents..