Genealogy Chat

I've already mentioned the only difference in the Ancestry versions I've come across.
I'ld be very interested (and surprized) by any details of differences to accessing the records.

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Periodically, Ancestry gives free access, usually to subsets of their records, e.g.,
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1361773

Sign up for Ancestry's (free) newsletter (or whatever they call it), and you'll get notified of these freebies.

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Leaving aside such freebies, there is limited free access to UK images.
Unlike, say Canada and the US where there is free access to all the older federal censuses, the only free access to UK censuses is for Ireland 1901/11 via:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/

Most City of Dublin parish registers are free online at:
http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/
[There are also Carlow, Cork & Kerry OPRs there too]

Scottish images are only accessible thru the pay to view SP site

I think all the free images from the rest of the UK are accessible via:
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1®ion=UNITED_KINGDOM_IRELAND

However, like all non-census records, the coverage is variable
E.g., since you mentioned Chesterfield, all I see there is:

The collection "England, Derbyshire, Church of England Parish Registers, 1537-1918"
includes images for Chesterfield Holy Trinity, viz:
Burials 1839-1875; Burials 1873-1900; Marriages 1876-1895 (vol 2).

Transcriptions are much more available - FS has the English & Welsh censuses, but the 1911 is not very useful.
Also, FS uses FMP's transcription, not Ancestry's - which can create problems.
If you have the census ref, then you can use this to do a free search on Ancestry or FMP, and see all the names on that page (but not full details for free), and guess how the other site has transcribed the name.

FMP has more accurate transcriptions than Ancestry, but FreeCEN is more accurate than both.
However FreeCEN's coverage is spotty (but listed). FreeCEN also provides the census ref, and allows one to look up by census ref.
FreeCEN also lets you view the next/previous household (repeatedly) with just a click.
However, the thing I like best abt FreeCEN is the layout of the transcription.
I copy every hit I get and paste it into a file(s).

I have a bookmark to FreeBMD's home page, and this has links to FreeCEN and FreeREG.
The latter is useful in supplementing FS, and especially useful for locating hits amongst FS's unindexed images.
One should also supplement FreeBMD's GRO index with a local index, when available, see"
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/local_bmd

When l get a chance to go to the library, which unfortunately is not as often as I'd like, l will because l've listed some of the "oddities" that need clarification. However, is there a website that l can go on from my iPad that is "virtually free" similar to the library version of Ancestry.
I was talking to someone l met in Chesterfield who is looking into their family tree, but in a lot more detail than l can ever hope to do, and they are of the opinion that the info given by Ancestry in the library is not as "open" with info as when you are a "paid up" member. Are they wrong in their assumption?
Ron

Ron - Re your earlier query "Is it possible that Ancestry have better info and perhaps I should "spend a few bob" and register with them. "

You could also check with your local library - my local library board has a "library licence" that permits users almost full access to Ancestry from all its branches.
3 of my 4 neighbouring boards have a similar licence. Almost full - I can't contact other Ancestry members is the only limitation I've come across.

My library has limits on PC usage - 2 one hour sessions per day, but there are enough PCs that there's never been a queue when my hour is up, so I can log straight back on again. I normally email to myself any images I've downloaded,
plus a file I create to accept pastes of transcriptions, etc, that I copy off the screen.

Hi Ron

Good to see you back, and glad that you have completed this part of your tree

I am happy with what you kind people have researched and supplied me with. This part of my tree is now ok. Thanks again folks,

Ron

Hope all goes well for you, Rondog. You haven't ignored us - you have thanked us all. Hope it has helped.

Rondog


good luck with whatever it is you are facing.

Take your time ........

....... and don't worry about us thinking you are ignoring us


Come back as and when you feel able

On 12 Oct I was detained in hospital for surgery and am due to undergo some further tests over the coming weeks which will mean that I wont be able to do a great deal with what you have already so kindly supplied. Please don't think that I'm ignoring you, I'm just feeling the effects of digging, prodding and being shoved from pillar to post.
Thanks gritty, potty, mgnv and SylviainCanada.

Rondog, I will PM you the images of John Martin & Ann Wood's Banns & Marriage. The marriage was very badly transcribed on Ancestry - Marlin instead of Martin and Wood Cote for Ann!!!

It is very unlikely that you will see much more information on the microfiches .......... there was very little information given in the parish Registers of those days


It is rare that you see the name of the fathers, and rarely see more about the age of the bride or groom than "of full age" or "minor"

Mothers' surnames are rarely given on baptisms, and often their forenames are not given ................... although this can vary from church to church. Some vicars gave more information than others.

Rondog


ancestry has the marriage as 29 Nov ................ as I posted almost 2 days ago


SylviaInCanada Report Edit Delete 18 Oct 2014 00:56

England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 about John Martin

Name: John Martin
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 29 Nov 1768
Marriage Place: Pontefract,York,England
Spouse: Ann Wood
FHL Film Number: 990759



which is why I suggested in a later post that GR is wrong


In fact, the records you see on GR are not their own transcribing .................... they have all been acquired from the sister site FindMyPast ............

......... and FMP may well have done their own transcription, and got it wrong.

Bans were 6th, 13th and 20th November.....................1768
The marriage was quoted as 25th SEPTEMBER........1768.

If and when I can get to a library that has all the Microfische records for the Martin (+ others) I'm hoping to find more info regarding John and his wife.

The fortunate part is that at least I have him in my tree.

What I have some doubts about are dob of
a) his father William circa 1717
b) his grandfather John defo 1687
c) his great grandfather Robert circa 1661
and finally
d) his great great grandfather Robert circa 1630

I intend to end my search with Robert Martin circa 1630.

I just hope my children will carry on the family search of their mothers lineage.

Rondog - Ancestry have images of both the banns & marriage for the 1768 marriage. Printing off those is the nearest you will get to a "hard copy" unless you contact the archives where they are stored and see if they can send you an image of what they hold, but it will not be any different to the image on Ancestry. If you want to search for images for the other events, it might be worth taking a free trial on Ancestry.

This is where the West Yorkshire records are held:

Original data: Yorkshire Parish Records. Leeds, England: West Yorkshire Archive Service.

thanks mgnv!


it does not make nonsense of what I posted ............


but i was mis-led by Rondog's own earlier posting, and didn't really take in what I had posted ...............


"Someone gave me a copy of the entry of the bans of John M and Ann Wood read on 6th, 13th and 20th November 1768 which throws out the info l get from GR that they were married on 25th September 1768 (2months earlier than the ban?? "



I guess that means that GR's information is wrong :-)

Sylvia - I missing something - why does:
Banns called 6th 13th and 20th November 1768
make nonsense of :
Marriage Date: 29 Nov 1768 ?

I wouldn't interpret Sylvia's cautions abt collections as referring to any of those at:
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1®ion=UNITED_KINGDOM_IRELAND

Incidentally, the FS home page https://familysearch.org/ has a "Find a center" link that will show you nearby FHC's. You can rent an FHL film thru them to view at the centre - in Sylvia's home town, you can even view it at the main library downtown on Georgia - at any rate, you used to be able to do so, although I've not checked recently.
If you're not able to visit the appropriate county records office easily yourself, then renting the appropriate film is a viable means to your goal.


It might be helpful to know what older parishes there were. There's an 1850s map at:
http://maps.familysearch.org/
and an 1848 edition of Lewis at:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/source.aspx?pubid=445
Regarding the latter, the poor-law union nearly always coincides with the 1848 rego district, and regarding the former, one can layer on the civil rego district boundaries, which can be handy.

Incidentally, it's sometimes relevant for the born in/out of county column in 1841 that until 1844, most of Northumberland around Berwick was actually in a detached chunk of Co Durham - this affected all of Berwick RD except the town of Berwick, and the N part of Belford RD.

There were numerous minor adjustments to county boundaries thru the 19th cent, but the only major change was the creation of the County of London in 1889 (out of Middx N of the river and Surrey/Kent S of river).

Finally, google the appropriate county records office - most have online pamphlets saying what parish registers they hold - you're quite likely to only have access to their films, and not the actual rego's - conservation reigns.

It took some finding, but I did find the Banns information that someone sent you



West Yorkshire, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1512-1812 about John Martin

Name: John Martin
Event Date: 20 Nov 1768
Event Type: Bann
Parish: Pontefract, St Giles and St Mary
Spouse's Name: Ann Wood

Banns called 6th 13th and 20th November 1768



which does make nonsense of the marriage record, or vice versa!

from ancestry


??????


England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 about John Martin

Name: John Martin
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 29 Nov 1768
Marriage Place: Pontefract,York,England
Spouse: Ann Wood
FHL Film Number: 990759




but what made you pick that one?


there is also this marriage of a John Martin to an Ann, on the same date but in York!


England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 about John Martin

Name: John Martin
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 29 Nov 1768
Marriage Place: Saint Maurice,York,York,England
Spouse: Ann Mollonack
FHL Film Number: 990900


also seen as ......

England & Wales Marriages, 1538-1940 about John Martin

Name: John Martin
Gender: Male
Spouse's Name: Ann Molynenk
Marriage Date: 29 Nov 1768
Marriage Place: York, Yorkshire, England





all England Select Marriages records on ancestry were actually acquired by them from that family search site ......................... see the link given above.



Remember that if it is on familysearch ........

....... it belongs to the LDS, and if you have an LDS place in your town or city, you may request that they bring in the actual microfiches so that you can look at the filmed record yourself.


I live in a major city, we do have an LDS place ................... but unofrtunately it willd not bring in the microfiches :-( . I have no idea why not!

from ancestry .............


West Yorkshire, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1512-1812 about John Martin

Name: John Martin
Event Date: 5 Dec 1742
Event Type: Baptism
Parish: Knottingley, St Botolph
Father's Name: William Martin


Looking at the image of this record, it is extremely confusing!

The months written in the left hand margin go as follows .............

May
June
July
Aug
7ber
8ber
9ber
0ber <<<<<<< the page was apparently torn here, and it could well have been 10ber, because there is a little mark obvious just to the left of the top of the 0

then the next month is Januy



Now ................ you do have to remember that the English calendar changed in the mid-18th century .......... in September 1752 to be precise

In addition to omitting 11 days in September that year, the date of the New Year was also changed.

Prior to 1752, the New Year began on 25 March, also known as Lady Day

For example, in England, the day after 24 March 1642 was 25 March 1643. The Act changed this, so that the day after 31 December 1751 was 1 January 1752. As a consequence, 1751 was a short year - it ran only from 25 March to 31 December.


This could explain the 7ber, 8ber, etc ........... where we now see the month after August to be September, the 8th month



for a fuller explanation, see

http://www.adsb.co.uk/date_and_time/calendar_reform_1752/

oh yes ..........

ancestry Parish Records are better,


you could also try looking at the free site run by the LDS (Mormons)


as long as you stick to Records, and don't go into Collections which often show information posted by LDS members and patently untrue, or made to fit the facts :-)


https://familysearch.org/search


also look on the Online Parish Clerks, to see is your county has got any OPC records ............ only a few counties are well covered, but some, Lancashire for example, are excellent


http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/online_parish_clerk

You're right SylviainCanada.
I'm actually wanting copies of the church documents if that's at all possible.

Someone gave me a copy of the entry of the bans of John M and Ann Wood read on 6th, 13th and 20th November 1768 which throws out the info l get from GR that they were married on 25th September 1768 (2months earlier than the ban?? That's odd, incidentally, the page shows
AncestryLibrary.com - West Yorkshire, England, baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1512-1812 (Is it possible that Ancestry have better info and perhaps I should "spend a few bob" and register with them. What dya think ladies?)

James 1773 md Mary Henshaw Nottingham on 9 Jan 1798 after banns but GR don't record their marriage.

GR do show marriages of William M and Mary Jefferson 8 Dec 1741, John M and Mary Salkeld 4 Sep 1712, Robert M and Alizes Bartram 4 Sep 1712 (no bride quoted) and finally Robert M married Mary Lowther 1655 (no actual date).

This leaves me with a few questions l need to answer. I don't really know how best to tackle them. I really am struggling and wonder how to get HARD COPIES of bmd records.
Ron
ps. Sorry I didn't make it absolutely clear what I am after, perhaps now, I've made it clear. (Thanks for you help so far, just hope you can help me just a little bit more.)