Genealogy Chat

Thank you for your help..
So it was a Banns book rather than a marriage register...

It might still be worth viewing the filmed original book, in the hope that there is mention of a home parish for either of them and / or whether the marriage actually took place.

Gwyn

So, maybe they didn't actually get married - or did so at a later date - although I can't see a marriage anywhere.

Flip - Re: "I'm not sure what sort of record / register that marriage comes from"

Go to https://familysearch.org/catalog-search and search for the film # in the record, here:
FHL Film Number:1042456

You'll see:
Parish registers of Bromley, 1558-1902, 1558-1880
Authors:Church of England. Parish Church of Bromley (Kent) (Main Author)
Format: Manuscript/Manuscript on Film
Language: English
Publication: Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmed by the Genealogical Society of Utah, 1982-1998
Physical: on 7 microfilm reels ; 35 mm.
References: (Digital Collection) England, Kent, parish registers, 1538-1911

Notes
[...] Microfilm of original records in the Kent County Record Office, Maidstone, and in the Central Library in Bromley.
Central Library call no.: P47/1/9-10, 21-23, 34, 36-37.
The parish church of Bromley is called St. Peter and St. Paul.

Film Notes (This family history center has 7 of 7 films/fiche.)
Note Location Collection/Shelf Film/DGS
----------
General register (baptisms, 1558-1714; marriages, 1575-1734; burials, 1578-1678); Baptisms, 1558-1844. Family History Library British Film 1042453 Items 3 - 7
Baptisms, 1844-1877; Marriages, 1735-1837. Family History Library British Film 1042454
Marriages, 1837-1880. Family History Library British Film 1042455
Burials, 1678-1880; Banns, 1838-1875. Family History Library British Film 1042456
Baptisms, 1877-1900; Marriages, 1881-1900; Banns, 1875-1902; Burials, 1875-1900. Family History Library British Film 2145342
Vestry minutes, 1703-1801. Family History Library British Film 1042457
Vestry minutes (cont.), 1792-1833. Family History Library British Film 1042458 Items 1 - 4



So it's actually from the banns book

Flip

Yes, my friend has birth cert. of Mary Ann, born 24 September 1849 and baptised 21 October 1849 at St Paul's, Deptford.
I'm not sure what sort of record / register that marriage comes from.....

Chris
Thank you. I believe that to be the mother of the above Mary Ann.

Gwyn

Baptism
County Kent
Place Deptford
Church St Paul
RegisterNumber 503
DateOfBirth
BaptismDate 07 Sep 1823
Forename Mary Ann
FatherForename Henry
MotherForename Maria
FatherSurname COPEEL
MotherSurname
Abode Gravel Pits
FatherOccupation Labr

(possible Mother?)

Chris :)

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl

I can see that mariage on ancestry

John Bellchambers
Gender:Male
Marriage Date:4 Jun 1843
Marriage Place:Bromley, Kent, England
Spouse: Mary Ann Copple
FHL Film Number:1042456

Could this just have been a user submitted entry?

Does your friend have Mary Ann's (jnr) birth certificate to confirm her mmn?

Could mary ann have been married before, so on the birth her maiden name was Coppel, but she married under a different married name?

Thank you all for sticking with this.........

Chris
A big Thank you for all those excellent links. My friend will be really pleased with the information.
I see in one of the newspaper accounts that a ship was named, so she can check that too.

I don't know when Henry LANE died, other than that Mary Ann LANE is shown as a widow in 1881.


Now we have another problem with this family and wonder if anyone can help.

For years my friend has searched in vain for the marriage of Mary Ann LANE's parents ie. John BELCHAMBER and Mary Ann COPPLE, but guessed it to be early 1840s.
She has found mentioned on Ancestry a marriage in Bromley (Kent) on 4 June 1843 between John BELLCHAMBERS and Mary Ann COPPLE, but this doesn't feature on freebmd images.
How can she get a copy of that marriage please?
We know from experience that local Record Offices need a location.
Is 'Bromley' enough?


Gwyn

Perhaps Florence wasn't the child of Mr Lane.

That would go some way to explaining the birth being so far removed from the family's normal place of abode

Which is more likely to be the one on the census posted by Jan - as both the older and younger siblings were registered in same district according to Lancsbmd.

Added: I see the birth suggested has now been deleted....

When did Mr LANE die?

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast

(a search on above, mary lane waterproof brings a few hits)

A TRADE DISPUTE.
New Zealand Herald, Volume XXIX, Issue 8944, 30 July 1892, Page 3

(mentions Mary going July 1889, possible below, but no name of Ship!)


New Zealand, Archives New Zealand, Passenger Lists, 1839-1973

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1609792

Name: M A Lane
Event Type: Immigration
Event Date: 1889
Event Place: Wellington (other ports also listed), New Zealand
Gender: Female
Age: 34
Marital Status: Married
Nationality: England
Occupation: labr
Birth Year (Estimated): 1855
Departure Port: London
Departure Place: London
Arrival Port: Wellington (other ports also listed)
Arrival Place: Wellington (other ports also listed)
Digital Folder Number: 004415946 , Image Number: 00156


http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~shipstonz/wellington4.html

(SHIPS TO NEW ZEALAND Between 1883 and 1890)

Chris :)

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Belchamber-23

(looks to relate)


http://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/

(in case any Belchamber relate on above!)


http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-Cyc02Cycl-t1-body1-d1-d43-d2.html

(above interesting, Belchamber And CO.)


https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/

(if any use)

...to clarify.......

My friend knows that the family in 1881 census is connected. She has birth and baptism and other family information about Mary Ann, the mother born BELCHAMBER in 1849.
Mary Ann's mother, -also Mary Ann is my friend's direct ancestor.

What she can't find is a birth for Florence in the GRO index.

As Florence is stated to have been born in Manchester, I was looking on Lancs.bmd to see if a birth was recorded, which hadn't made it onto the GRO master index.

Gwyn

So is there no concrete reason for thinking that the child on the 1881 census is the one who is distantly connected to your friend, other than the coincidence of her mother's name?

Or am I misinterpreting?

What makes your friend think Florence was born around 1878?

Which LANE is definitely known to be a relly?

Emigration records on line are only from 1890, and there isn't one to New Zealand for a Florence Lane before 1910

Of course, to find out the child's mother's maiden name, purchasing the birth cert is the answer, but you don't need me to tell you that....LOL!

It would seem that friend does not have later information about Florence, after 1881.

She may have gone to New Zealand, which is where her mother Mary LANE was found mentioned in a newspaper in relation of a court case, when she took action against her boss? involved in a waterproof coat company.

The LANEs are a side shoot on friend's tree and she has no access to emmigration records, which are likely to be between 1881 and 1891.

Gwyn

Finding the birth will be easier with concrete info about her marriage. At least that will give some idea of when she was born

Thank you for your replies.
I will phone my friend tomorrow.

I think though that she was trying to find Florence's birth registration, which by that date should have taken place.
She may well have the marriage cert. -She has thousands of certs., literally.
I will post when I've spoken to her.

Gwyn

When and who did Florence marry?

Maryb

If your friend is descended from Florence, she should get a copy of the girl's marriage cert, then she'll have the father's name, if it was known

Lancashire baptisms are on the LancsOPC site