Genealogy Chat

wIlliam Henry born 1884 his brothers were George 1866, John c 1870, Robert 1874, Thomas c 1877 but I think the one that went might have been Alfred 1880 although I could be wrong.

Yes I have seen the marriage certificate that's how I found out he had been married before as it's states previously married To Lydia Stump now divorced.

Yes, it's strange the first and second wife only lived streets away, from each other that's what made me think perhaps he was with them both for a long while.

William (billy)!was the first of their children together they then went on to,have my dad (Edward) and Hilda in 1931.

What was William's younger brothers name and year of birth - there may be a military record for him to confirm or not the story.

Doubt if Lydia was still having children with William after he went off with Rebecca, there was more likely another man in her life. Unless he had some incredible charms!!

So, by 1949 she was free to marry as you are sure of Henry/Herbert's death - but William wasn't unless he finally got a divorce as Lydia outlived this marriage. How sure are you of the marriage?

And yes, Ivy Emily was the 1909 child I referred to, registered under her mothers maiden name, so father did not attend the registration.

The other thing, the William registered as both Briggs and Cox - your grandfather must have attended the registry office for his name to be included on the birth certificate, otherwise the child would only have been recorded as Cox.

Oh meant to say yes Herbert Henry was a fish fryer died of heart attack 11/9/1940 in south gate death reported by nephew I believe that was the same person.

Oh meant to say yes Herbert Henry was a fish fryer died of heart attack 11/9/1940 in south gate death reported by nephew I believe that was the same person.

Hi Flip, yes it's a confusing family. I think WIlliam got Lydia pregnant when she was under age working at a sweet factor he married her when they were legal aged and went on to have children a lot of which died young so that must have put a strain on the marriage. Both my grandfather went on to have children with REbecca who had previous children from HErbert. But I noticed Lydia also went on to have children but no father was named, which is also the case for her first child with William I'm guessing if she out his age when she was under age he could of been arrested. But I do wonder if he had both of the women at the time as in 1924 when my father was born to Rebecca and William, Lydia also,had a child named Thomas A who does not have the father recorded on the birth certificate.

I did have the birth for Ivy Emily born 1909 is that the one you were referring to for Rebecca's child?

I haven't checked medical records. I was always told that William and a brother ran away and joined the army under age whether this is true I don't know and apparently the family didn't want anything to do with him when he returned as the younger brother that he took with him lost his sight ( it's probably all made up mind you)

They may never have divorced, just gone their separate ways. Looking at their history, I doubt they divorced - not least in the early days of their relationship.

Lydia was on her own (with other Stumps) from 1923 ERs - which would have been the earliest date she would have been entitled to vote, so not sure of where she was prior to this. Although it looks like she went on to have more children between 1924 & 1929.

William & Rebecca were together from at least 1921 on the ERs and the son William born in 1922 was registered under the names of Cox & Briggs so they were obviously together by then.

Are you sure of the death for Mr Cox - he married as Henry Herbert, but was on 1911 census as Herbert Henry - a fish fryer which matched with the marriage occupation. Have you checked for a remarriage for him? Also, did you notice there was an earlier child for Rebecca, born before their marriage (Ivy Emily age 2 and not recorded as their child on the census)

Also, have you checked for military records for either husband - had a quick look but couldn't find anything obvious, but may be something there.

Out ancestors certainly don't make things easy do they!
;-)

Oh ok, thanks for that. What a shame would love to know for sure if they got divorced and what the docs stated. Thanks again for your help

Oh ok, thanks for that. What a shame would love to know for sure if they got divorced and what the docs stated. Thanks again for your help

Oh ok, thanks for that. What a shame would love to know for sure if they got divorced and what the docs stated. Thanks again for your help

From the National Archives.........

The survival rate of divorce case files is:

1858-1927: almost 100%
1928-1937: 80%
After 1937 : less than 0.2%
............................................................................

I have 2 known divorces between 1946 / 1952, (my parents & my inlaws) unfortunately the records for them are no longer available.

You could apply to see if there is a decree nisi & absolute which would prove a divorce took place, but that is rather pricey for very little info (dates,names addresses,no divorce details) I understand it costs around £60 for this slip of paper!

Joan.

If the 2nd marriage didn't occur until 1949, then they may have divorced after 1937? and as mentioned at the national archives, hardly any records have survived from then

Yes they are both deceased. Here goes William Henry Briggs born 1884 died 1964 hackney. First married to Lydia Sally Stump born 1893 died 28/8/1975 hackney they married in all saints church Clapton on 17/11/1911.
Williams second wife was Rebecca E Belsham born 1887 died 1965 hackney. Her first husband was Henry Cox born 1884 mile end died 11/9/1940 south gate they were married St Mary Etonian church Hackney.
In a lot of census papers before my grandmother was actually married to my grandfather but were living with children together she would call herself Lydia and Eleanor so was very confusing but then realised that she was probably putting Lydia as this was her husbands actual wife's name at that particular time. They were married I believe 10/91949 in Hackney registry office.

Hope that helps. Thank you

I was just trying to highlight the problems you would have in tracing a divorce (or not - as many marriages were bigamous in the past!). It really was for the couple to declare their mariatial status, and I don't think any checks were carried out, it relied on their word - or the local vicars knowledge! I was married in the early 1970s and didn't have to provide proof on my identy or my mariatial status.

I actually found a 1911 census for a "couple" where the enumerator wrote on the form that she was single and the father was married to xxx, great result for that search.

Like Jax says, if you want any help you will need to post up details - assuming the people in question are deceased by now.

No one normally takes any notice of the sticked message at the top of the board so just carry on... same people reply to look ups here as well as any of the other boards

Ok thanks flip will do. I didn't put details had as I think it says on one of the beginning messages don't ask for look ups on this particular forum.. I can let you have them though if you think you may be able to help?

Ok thanks flip will do. I didn't put details had as I think it says on one of the beginning messages don't ask for look ups on this particular forum.. I can let you have them though if you think you may be able to help?

Try reading the guidelines here - may give you some idea of what to do.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/divorce.htm

Some are available on ancestry, but only early ones, so it depends on the years you are looking at.

Not sure what help you are after....some names may help

Comes back with no results. I will have to see if I can get some help on one of the other forums. Thanks

Sorry I am doing this I between customers, I'm a therapist. Thank you max will have a look on there maybe tonight and Reggie the first wife did die many years later and I know from their children's marriage certificate they wrote him off as dead even though he was alive. Which makes me wonder if he did get divorced at all and my grandmother I think her previous husband died in 1940 so she was legal to we'd. The marriage status said I think single for my nan and divorced for my grandad but I think they lippmay be telling fibs and wanted tomseemfor myself.