Genealogy Chat

Angela, I don't know if you can say definitely that the middle name is Amealin from the 1901 census. The writing on the original is very poor and could possibly be Amelia.

Joseph Thresh 1868 brother to Edith A Thresh
had daughter Grace Elizabeth Thresh married 1910 to Robert Wray witness Daniel Smith!!

When did Edith die and where were they in 1911.

Maryb.

1911 census transcription details for: Daniel Smith No 4 Bielby St Haltemprice St Hull

Original states married 23 years 10 children born 7 living 3 died.

National Archive Reference:
RG14PN28624 RG78PN1646 RD521 SD4 ED14 SN143
Reg. District: Sculcoates
Sub District: Hessle
Parish: Sculcoates
Enum. District: 14
Address: Daniel Smith No 4 Bielby St Haltemprice St Hull
County: Yorkshire (East riding)
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
SMITH, D Father Married M 42 1869 Builders Labourer Hull
SMITH, E M Mother Married
23 years F 41 1870 Hull
SMITH, E M Daughter Married F 22 1889 Hull
SMITH, W Son Single M 18 1893 Striker- Blacksmith Hull
SMITH, L Daughter F 16 1895 Canister Worker Hull
SMITH, H M Daughter F 14 1897 Hull
SMITH, A U Son M 10 1901 Hull
SMITH, H R Son M 5 1906 Hull
SMITH, E Daughter F 0 (6 MONTHS) 1911 Hull


Deaths Sep 1946 (>99%)
Smith Edith A 76 Hull 2a 162

if we all went by Ancestry's idiotic transcriptions of names none of us would ever find any of our ancestors ... or we would all have very funny names today

have to look at the original not the transcription

the original 1901 census clearly says Edith Amealia Smith - just a misspelling of the middle name Amelia by either her husband or herself, or the enumerator ...

just for info

Angela

You must not take as 'gospel' the way names are recorded on census returns.

You must always allow for the fact that a lot of people did not know how to spell their names......................and other factors

You must be flexible in your thinking.....................

I'm surprised that you haven't encountered this in all your years on GR

Hi Reggie, I just thought that Edith's middle name was unusual, I did not think it was not written down correctly, I still can't make up my mind on where she was born because as I look at some info, there is a choice between King's Lynn in Norfolk or Little Port in Cambridgeshire, both trees I have looked at have more or less the same people on their trees.
Angela

(all below go with 1871 posted earlier, also included in 'Thread'. Best to get the Cert. for info.)

Births Jun 1856 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------
Thresh Isabella Ann Kings Lynn 4b 567


Births Sep 1861 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------------
THRESH Sarah Jane Louisa Kings L 4b 351


Births Sep 1866 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------
Thrash Henrietta P King's L. 4b 322


Births Sep 1868 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------
THRESH Joseph King's L. 4b 332


Births Jun 1870 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------
Thresh Amelia Edith King's L. 4b 357


(if Cambs. it would be on below)

http://www.camdex.org.uk/search.cfm

Chris :)

Many thanks Chris, I might have to send for a couple of birth certs & then try to work out which is the right one.
Angela

the places of birth for the family members in 1881 (Littleport) [edit, sorry, I meant 1871] are just a load of 'ditto's ... not the most reliable record to go on ... the same applies where her place of birth is given as 'Hull' (which she may indeed have thought was correct, or again it could have just been a load of 'ditto's to the head of household's place of birth and not accurately recorded)

there is no Thresh birth in Cambridgeshire at all that could match Edith
so the 1871 place of birth seems completely unreliable

I don't see how there could be any doubt that she is the Amelia Edith Thresh born in Norfolk

the Edith Thresh whose birth was registered in Bradford district in early 1871 was with parents William and Hannah in 1871 census ... the Edith Thresh born in Wakefield in 1871 died there in 1872

Isabella Thresh who is a sister of Edith in 1871 was a daughter of John Thresh master of a vessel in 1861 ... your Edith's father was John Thresh a seaman

not much room for doubt that I see :-)

Would also be interesting to know Maiden Name of Mother Ann...(from Birth Cert.)

Chris :)

(below two on 1871, could possibly relate to the Marriages)

1871
John Thrash
[John Thresh] Ann abt 1840 Wakefield, Yorkshire, England Head Bradford, Yorkshire


1871
John Thrash Ann abt 1843 Doncaster, Yorkshire, England Head Goole, Yorkshire


Marriages Sep 1861 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------
KITCHEN Ann Bradford Yk 9b 184
THRESH John Bradford Yk 9b 184


Marriages Dec 1867 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------
HOLLAND Ann Goole 9c 909
THRESH John Goole 9c 909

I'm confused Cris :-)

Our John Thresh was on his vessel in the 1861 census, married to Ann with children, and supposedly at least deceased in 1871 ... so you were ruling out those marriages?

I wondered about this possible couple

Marriages Dec 1854
Dutton Robert William Leeds 9b 359
Robertshaw Lydia Leeds 9b 359
> Thresh John Robert Leeds 9b 359
> Walker Ann Leeds 9b 359
West Mary Leeds 9b 359

in 1871 our John was deceased (or at least Ann said she was a widow), he was aged 50 in 1861 (c1911 but that is a very round age) (possibility for death is lost at sea given his occupation)
in 1871 Ann was 38 (c1833)
their eldest child Isabelle was 4 in 1861

in 1871 in Ann's household there is a Lydia Larmer, married, also born Cambridge - possibly a sister? ... but there is no Lydia+Larmer marriage or anything like ...
I couldn't find any Ann Walker in 1841 or 1851 to fit Ann Thresh



1861

Name: Ann Thresh
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: 1826
Relation: Master Wife (Master)
Gender: Female
Where born: Littlepoart, Cumberland, England
[Littleport, Cambridgeshire, England]

Civil Parish: Vessels
Town: Portland
County/Island: Dorset

with John Thresh, master, aged 50, born Knottingley Yorkshire, and children Isabelle (it's a mess) aged 5 and Charles aged 3, both born Lynn, Norfolk

F??les Thresh
[Isabella Thresh]
Age: 5
Estimated birth year: 1856
Relation: Master Child (Master)
"The writing is overwritten and virtually illegible. The name Isabella can be confirmed at Family Search baptisms batch I02289-7."

the household is all broken up in the transcription at Ancestry but find him and you can see the image

this is the baptism record referred to

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NBYL-QM1

an Ancestry user made those corrections in square brackets last July

have you considered contacting that person through the Ancestry system?

the entire Thresh family is in his tree and he has Ann Padgett 1832 as second wife of John Thresh

http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/309079/person/-1768698526

in 1851 there were two Ann Padgetts about the right age (1831, 1833) in Littleport

in fact numerous people have Amelia Edith Thresh in their trees at Mundia (free version of Ancestry trees), just search here for her name born 1870

... and here's one that says mother was Ann Kitchen 1839 ...

Marriages Sep 1861 ??
KITCHEN Ann Bradford Yk 9b 184
THRESH John Bradford Yk 9b 184

doesn't fit with 1861 census, looks like a wild guess

http://www.mundia.com

it is free to register, search and send messages

this is the same record as the one at Ancestry for the user who corrected Ann's place of birth in the 1861

http://www.mundia.com/Person/309079/-1768698526

(but it won't show family members for me)

Confusion reigns, until Birth Cert. has been got, unless any Ancestry 'Trees', have this.

(one has him 1861 Wales, wife Ann Kitchen. Frightens me to look at them to be honest, so I don't, would rather see info. taken from Certs. wherever possible. All too easy to copy from each other, without knowing true facts!)


http://www.cfhs.org.uk/searchsd.cfm

(once Maiden Name known, a chance it could be on above)

Chris :)

Numerous newspaper articles (about 30) December 1870 relating to death of Captain Thresh, and 2 Sons, on board the 'Samuel Bernard' a schooner, carrying salt to Tyneside, lost in a gale, one refers to Mrs Fresh now living at Hull, with 6 children, items were washed up, including a family bible. Money was collected, and donated to her.

http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/

(credits can be bought on above, or on Find My Past, if Angela has access)


20 December 1870 - Shields Daily Gazette

Local and District News.

South Shields a movement has been set on foot to raise subscriptions on behalf of the widow of the master of the schooner Samuel Bernard, the loss of which, within sight of Shields harbour, during the recent gale, is still so fresh in the minds of the public of the two towns...


16 December 1870 - Newcastle Courant - Newcastle-upon-Tyne

MARINE INTELLIGENCE.
Tynemouth, the bodies of the two found on the rocks on Tuesday morning. Mrs Fresh, widow of John Fresh, late master of the schooner Samuel Bernard, of Boston, who had arrived in Tynemouth that evening from Hull, and who had seen the bodies ...


15 December 1870 - Shields Daily Gazette

Shipping.
Mrs Fresh was called. The witness was very much affected. She said she had only arrived from Hull that same evening, and had identified, in the Dead House, the body of her husband, John Fresh, late master of the schooner Samuel Bernard, of Boston ...

John Thresh married Mary ?? had charlotte 1843 who married William Pitt/s
1861 Plaistow West Ham Essex
William Pitt
Charlotte Pitt
Mary Thresh says married (wife of John??) she is in littleport in 1871 as widow

1861 John with Ann (Paget)??

Their children had middle name of Paget.
Ann Paget born 1832/3 littleport.
So looks like John and Ann didn't marry.

Sarah Jane Paget Thresh married George Featherstone in 1881 she was born @ 1863 died 11/5/1953 in Hull.

Henrietta Paget Thresh 1866 in
1881 Kings lynn
James Learmouth born @ 1831 kings Lynn a mariner
Lydia learmouth 1828 cambridgshire (She is the Lodger in 1871 with Ann)
Henrietta Thresh 14 adopted.

1851 Kings Lynn
Lydia Mead a Prostitute 1828 Cambridge
James learmouth 1831 Sailor, Lodger

Lydia Meade married James learmouth 1856.
James learmouth 1831 died O/N/D 1882
Lydia 1831 died A/M/J 1882.

Maryb.

Frightening indeed, some of the trees one sees :-)

(I was led to the one tree in particular with John Thresh and Ann Padgett, the one that seems reliable, from the correction to the census record that the tree owner had made - I always think it is important to follow them up ... it's because of other users contacting me about corrections I've made to census records at Ancestry that I have a huge amount of info about one shared family in particular that I would probably never have had otherwise)

What a lot of fascinating information, the two of you. Hopefully the birth cert will tell all.