Genealogy Chat

Can someone remind me, the certificates you send for are they the original signatures or are they copies. I am trying to prove my great grandfather was a bigamist.

Thanks
Carol

You get a copy of the cert as per the GRO records, which does not have original sigs.

If you want to see the original, you need to visit the appropriate Records Office, and hope that they married in Church....and that the man could actually write

Not entirely sure why you think seeing a signature will help - the father's details are probably of more use, and they will be on the copy cert - assuming his identity was known.

Thanks for that Reggie. All I know about my great-grandfather is on his marriage certificate. We do not know his age, or where born. He married 1871 had 5 children the last being my grandad.

We have lots of stories about him, none of which I now believe were true.

I have found someone who I believe may have been him, if so he was a bigamist.

Carol

Hi Carol,

If he was a Bigamist he may not have given the true details with regards to his father or his real birth name.

Sometimes they slip up when registering documents

Kind regards
Amanda

I recently found my grandparents marriage on seax (although dad has the original cert)

we were discussing whether one of the witnesses was my gt grandfather or his son also named William

I checked the signature against the 1911 census and although not exactly the same (15 years earlier) one was signed William the other Wm but the way he wrote the W was the same with a tail.......so my guess it was the same man

So if you can get to see the original parish record his writing may give it away....as long as he could write of course

He must have declared his age when he married.

Didn't he give a father's name?

Was his occupation the same as the 'bigamist's'?

If you want informed help, names and location would be useful

To be a bigamist, he would have had to go through two marriage ceremonies - when and where are the ones which you think are 'his'?

Hi, Amanda, Jax and Reggie.

My great grandfather has always been a mystery. James Alexander Bains, says on marriage certificate, widower, a ship steward, father John Alexander Bains, shipwright. He married Eliza Holland in 1875 Shoreditch. Never found on any census, or his father. He had 4 children and was named on all their birth certificates.

We have various stories about him, ie. he was Spanish and had escaped and came to England where he changed his name to Bains. That when my grandfather was expected he said he had to go away for his health, and if he was a boy to call him Ferdinando Ricardo Bains. Apparently my g.grandmother then had a letter saying he had died, but I have found a 5th child who was born 2 yrs later, with him named on birth certificate, he is then a master mariner.

Who I believe may be him is James Alexander Bains b.1842 South Shields, father Alexander Bains. He married Jane Elizabeth Nicholson. This James was a master mariner, and appears on most census. This James emigrated in 1891 to Ontario. His wife apparently suffered with hereditary spastic paraplegia, which may have been a reason why he sort a further marriage.

Any thoughts would be appreciated I have been looking for him for 16 yrs.

Carol

What was your grandfather's registered name?

When and where was he born?

And WHO was his mother?

You haven't answered the AGE question - ref marriage cert(s)

The only 1891 emigration on FMP

Name: Jas BAINS
Date of departure: 8 May 1891
Port of departure: Liverpool
Passenger destination port: Montreal, Canada
Passenger destination: London, United Kingdom
Date of Birth: 1843 (calculated from age)
Age: 48 Marital status: Married
Sex: Male
Occupation: Lab
Passenger recorded on: Page 6 of 8
The following people with the same last name travelled on this voyage:
Annie BAINS | Page 6 of 8 Age 17
Jane BAINS | Page 6 of 8 Age 48

THIS man's occupation was LABOURER

For INFO.......................

Marriages Dec 1867 (>99%)
BAINS James Alexander Newcastle T 10b 167
NICHOLSON Jane Elizabeth Newcastle T 10b 167

Marriages Mar 1875 (>99%)
BAINS James Alexander Shoreditch 1c 250
HOLLAND Eliza Shoreditch 1c 250

Name: Alexander Bains
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 16 Apr 1871
Christening Place: LAYGATE PRESBYTERIAN-NC,SOUTH SHIELDS,DURHAM,ENGLAND
Birth Date: 19 Mar 1871
Father's Name: James Alexander Bains
Mother's Name: Jane Elizabeth Nicholson
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: D19810-2
System Origin: England-ODM
GS Film number: unknown
Reference ID:

1871 census

Person: BAINS, Alexander Address: Charlotte Terrace, Westoe, South Shields

BAINS, James A Head M 28 1843 County Durham VIEW
BAINS, Jane E Wife F 28 1843 County Durham VIEW
BAINS, Ethel M Daughter F 1 1870 County Durham VIEW
BAINS, Alexander Son M 0 1871 County Durham VIEW
NICHOLSON, Margery Mother-In-Law F 68 1803 County Durham VIEW
ORD, Jane C Nurse F 38 1833 County Durham VIEW
WARDLE, Mary A Servant F 22 1849 County Durham

1881 census

Person: BAINS, Alexander Address: 9, Charlotte Terr, Westoe

NICHOLSON, Margary Head Widow F 76 1805
So Shields, Durham VIEW
BAINS, James A Son In Law Married M 38 1843 Master Mariner
So Shields, Durham VIEW
BAINS, Jane E Daughter Married F 38 1843
So Shields, Durham VIEW
BAINS, Ethel M Grand Daughter Single F 11 1870 Scholar
So Shields, Durham VIEW
BAINS, Alexander Grand Son Single M 10 1871 Scholar
So Shields, Durham VIEW
BAINS, Annie Grand Daughter Single F 8 1873 Scholar
So Shields, Durham VIEW
JACKSON, Margaret Servant Single F 20 1861 Domestic Servant
Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland

1891 census


Person: BAINS, Jane E Address: 9, Charlotte Terrace, Westoe, South Shields

BAINS, James C Head Married M 48 1843 Master Mariner
South Shields, Co Durham VIEW
BAINS, Jane E Wife Married F 48 1843
South Shields, Co Durham VIEW
BAINS, Annie Daughter Single F 17 1874
South Shields, Co Durham

Hi Reggie,
Grandfather was reg. Fernando Riccardo Bains b. 10.3.1881 Bethnal Green, Middx. Father James Alexander Bains mariner, mother Eliza Bains Nee Holland.

Yes that is the James Bains that emigrated to Canada with his wife Jane, and daughter Annie, his first daughter died in c.1890 and a son Alexander who died 1930 Canada of Schizophrenia.

Age on marriage cert. says full.
Carol

Eliza Barnes, "England and Wales Census, 1881"
Name: Eliza Barnes
Age (Original): 29
Gender: Female
Birth Year: 1852
Birthplace: B Gn, Middlesex, England
Relationship to Head of Household: Wife Head
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Shop Steward
Address: 147 Finnis St
Event Place: Bethnal Green, Middlesex, England
Disability:
Record Type: Household
GS Film number: 1341093
Affiliate Publication Number: RG11
Piece/Folio: 429 / 76
Page Number: 99
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Wife Head Eliza Barnes F 29 B Gn, Middlesex, England
Son James A Barnes M 5 Sditch, Middlesex, England
Daughter Alice E Barnes F 4 Sditch, Middlesex, England
Daughter Ada L Barnes F 1 Tottm, Middlesex, England
Son Fernando Barnes M 0 B Gn, Middlesex, England

Yes all those census are correct for the James b. South shields.

Great grandmother remarried her lodger Edmund Nightingale in 1885, don't know if she had to prove she was a widow.

Carol

You mentioned a Shipwright..............this one perhaps?

1891 census
Person: BAINS, Alexander Address: 205, Albion Row, Byker, Newcastle Upon Tyne

BAINS, Alexander Head Married M 54 1837 Shipwright
South Shields, Durham VIEW
BAINS, Jane Wife F 51 1840
Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland VIEW
BAINS, Alexander Son Single M 20 1871 Plumber
Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland VIEW
BAINS, Annie Daughter Single F 15 1876 Domestic Servant
Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland VIEW
BAINS, Willie Son M 13 1878 Apprentice Plumber
Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland VIEW
BAINS, Euphemia Daughter F 11 1880 Scholar
Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland

Safh,

Yes that is my g.grandmother, see you found it easily. That was my eurika moment, always remember the day sitting in Family Record Offices, think every one else in the building heard lol, it took me 2 yrs to find her.

Carol

Reggie,

Just pulled certs. out my mistake it says Ship Builder. which I believe can be a shipwright. It is a John Bains I really need, if that was his name.

Carol