Genealogy Chat

Many thanks BatMansDaughter that is a great help. I will be ordering the birth and marriage certs and seeing where this takes me. At least it clears up the story that she married an American film producer. :-)

I've gone through this all again Stephen and I would say that Ella Foreman is the lady you're looking for.

Breaking it down;

May Cloutman nee TODD gets together with James Cullen (sometimes Frederick James Cullen) and has 3 children Daisy Amy OM Cullen born 1908, Iris Eileen N Cullen born 1912 and Frederick Edward F Todd born 1913. These are confirmed by the London Electorol Roll.

Presumably your great Aunt Ella Madeline May takes on her step fathers name of Cullen. She marries Thomas William Foreman in 1926 under the name Ellen M Cullen.

You may think it strange that your Aunt was still with her mother but your Grandfather and his brother were adopted, if you consider that May has further children then having another older girl around is going to help with raising these children.

Just one problem that I've come across;

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Jun 1922 (>99%)
Cullen Horace T J Miller Lambeth 1d 597

The above Horace is with May, Iris and James Cullen in 1945 on the Surrey Electorol Roll, yet his mothers maiden name is Miller......and May had already a son named Horace.

The only way to prove or disprove this is to order some certificates, maybe the 1926 marriage and one of the Cullen/Todd children's birth certificate.

Stephen, I think you're mixing up Ella's birth date with her baptism date.

This is what was originally posted by +++DetEcTive+++ a few months ago:

England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906

Name: Ella Madeline May Cloutman
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 23 Jul 1899 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Christening Date: 1 Oct 1899
Christening Place: Walthamstow, Essex, England
Age at Christening: 0
Father's Name: Thomas William Cloutman
Mother's name: May

Been checking Jonesey death record for Ella M M Foreman problem with the date of birth my Aunt Ella dob was 01/10/1899 and Ella Foreman dob was 22/07/1899 so probably not the same person. As my Grandfather and his brother were adopted it is possible that she was as well but had her name changed. Anyone got any idea where I can go from here?

Been doing some checking of the replies. Thanks Chris Ho :) I looked at the original census and it seems that the person who did the transcript/ mistook the "ut" in cloutman for a "w" how I'll never know. Still having trouble finding my Great Aunty Ella on the census though. She would have been 12 so if she had been adopted as well maybe her name was changed. Never mind I will keep on trying to find out what happened to her during this time. If she had children and grandchildren I would love to meet them sometime and they might be able to fill in the blanks. Once again many thanks everyone for your help. :-D

Thanks everyone for your help in clearing this family matter (hopefully) I will be talking to my late fathers surviving siblings when I can. Will keep interested parties informed of what I find out. Once again many thanks :-)

The Cullen name is proving a problem. I've come across these births, on a ancestry tree the father is James, unfortunately no first name of the mother,

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Jun 1912 (>99%)
Cullen Iris E N Todd Wandsworth 1d 1009
Births Mar 1914 (>99%)
CULLEN Frederick E F Todd Wandsworth 1d 993


I don't see a corresponding marriage.

1891
TOD, Edward Head Married M 53 1838 Gardener
Brentwood, Essex
TOD, Sarah Wife Married F 48 1843
Epping, Essex
TOD, Laura Daughter F 14 1877 Scholar
Walthamstow, Essex
TOD, May Daughter F 9 1882 Scholar
Walthamstow, Essex
TOD, Horace Son M 12 1879 Scholar
Walthamstow, Essex
TOD, George Son M 8 1883 Scholar
Walthamstow, Essex
TOD, Louisa Daughter F 19 1872 Charwoman
Walthamstow, Essex
Piece: 1355
Folio: 103
Page: 14
Registration District: West Ham
Civil Parish: Walthamstow
Municipal Borough:
Address: 6, Forest Retreat, College Place, Walthamstow
County: Essex

Births Jun 1881 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------
TODD May W. Ham 4a 194

Name:May Todd
Baptism Date:24 Jul 1881
Baptism Place:St Peter's, Walthamstow, Essex, England
Father: Edward Todd
Mother: Sarah Ann


Marriages Jun 1899 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------
Cloutman Thomas W. Ham 4a 392
Todd May W. Ham 4a 392

(from 1901 posted earlier, above could be May?, not sure if Stephen has Marriage Cert.?)

Chris :)

In 1964 Ella May Foreman is on th electoral roll living with Iris M and George Parfitt

And a possible marriage for Jean in 1957 in the same reg district.

I would presume that Iris was also their daughter,

Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1943 (>99%)
Blowers Keith G Jones Uxbridge 3a 271
Foreman Iris M Parfitt Uxbridge 3a 271 <<<<<
Jones Eva Blowers Uxbridge 3a 271
Parfitt George E Foreman Uxbridge 3a 271 <<<<<<<

All Tax, Criminal, Land & Wills Results
England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966 about Frank Hugh Fairweather
Name: Frank Hugh Fairweather
Probate Date: 16 Feb 1961
Death Date: 31 Oct 1960
Death Place: Essex, England
Registry: London, England

Mentions his widow Ella Mary Fairweather.

So the 1915 marriage could well be a red herring.

I also wondered about this marriage,

Name: Ella M Cullen
Spouse Surname: Fairweather
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1915
Registration district: Farnham
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume Number: 2a
Page Number: 336
Records on Page:
Name
Ella M Cullen
Frank H Fairweather <<<<<<
Ethel M Horne
Cubitt J Postle

3 Foreman Cullen children,

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Mar 1922 (>99%)
Foreman Iris M Cullen E.Preston 2b 547
Births Sep 1924 (>99%)
Foreman Beryl E Cullen E.Preston 2b 502
Births Sep 1928 (>99%)
Foreman Jean Cullen Wandsworth 1d 799

Me neither Mary :-(

Anyone found what happened to her mother?

Still can't see Ella in 1911.

Maryb

On the 1951 electrol roll there is Beryl E Meek, I think this is her,

Births Sep 1924 (>99%)
Foreman Beryl E Cullen E.Preston 2b 502


Surname First name(s) Mother/Spouse/Age District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1946 (>99%)
Foreman Beryl E Meek Uxbridge 5f 901
Meads Florence R Slade Uxbridge 5f 901
Meek Denis F Foreman Uxbridge 5f 901
Slade Morris W Meads Uxbridge 5f 901

She marries again in 1953.


So if her mother is Ella, she was registered prior to their marriage, and it looks as if Ella was using Cullen as her maiden name.

Just been having a read through this and Maryb is quite right - she is recorded by her full name in 1931 at 350 Wandsworth Road.

The first appearance of Ella and Thomas William Foreman is 1929 at 492 Wandsworth Road. She wouldn't appear before that as the voting age for women was just lowered from 30 in 1928. The couple are together through the 1930s, 40s & 50s (as DET posted above) at 6 Derwent road, Uxbridge. From the early 60s she's at 8 Villiers Road with people called Parfitt at the same address.

Thomas William Foreman died 1962:

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Deaths Mar 1962
FOREMAN Thomas W 72 Brighton 5h 148

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966
Name: Thomas William Foreman
Probate Date: 17 Apr 1962
Death Date: 12 Feb 1962
Death Place: Sussex, England
Registry: Lewes

Of 1 Manor Close, Henfield, Sussex. Died Royal Sussex Hospital, Brighton. Probate to widow Ella Madeline Foreman. Effects £8353 17s 5d.
...........................................................................................................

Personally, I think the 1926 marriage that DET posted might just be her. It could be a horrible mangling of her name, she might even have already had a short marriage, she may have been brought up using another name ....

1931 Wandsworth it actually says Ella Madeline May Foreman.

No marriage jumping out so maybe they weren't unless they married abroad.

Where was she 1911?

Maryb.

Hello Stephen and welcome to the Community boards.




Note: I will let Stephen know that he has replies to his query :-)