Genealogy Chat

I am trying to find out what happened to My Great Aunty Ella as the only information I have got is her birth in West Ham. Her fathers name was Thomas(c1875) and mother Mary or May(c1871) (her maiden name was Todd). She had two brothers George (1901) and Horace(1902) there is no record of the family in the 1911 census. Family rumour is that she married an American film producer in the 1920s. It is thought that both parents died between 1910 to 1919 as my Grandfather Horace was sent to live in Box, Wiltshire again family rumour is he was an orphan. Hopfully someone out there will have an idea of were I can look.

1901 census transcription details for: 32, College Place, Walthamstow

Print Close
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13
Piece: 1629
Folio: 131
Page: 25
Reg. District: West Ham
Sub District: Walthamstow
Parish: Walthamstow
Enum. District: 45
Ecclesiastical District: St Peters
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 32, College Place, Walthamstow
County: Essex
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
CLOUTMAN, Thomas W Head Married M 26 1875 Showman In Jute & Hemp Showroom
London Fields, London
CLOUTMAN, Mary Wife Married F 20 1881
Walthamstow, Essex
CLOUTMAN, Ella M Daughter Single F 1 1900
Walthamstow, Essex
CLOUTMAN Son Single M 0 (2W) 1901
Walthamstow, Essex

Name: Horace Albert Leonard Cloutman
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 23 Apr 1902
Christening Date: 6 Jul 1902
Christening Place: Walthamstow, Essex, England
Age at Christening: 0
Father's Name: Thomas William Cloutman
Mother's name: May

1911:
Name: Horace Cloutman
Age in 1911: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1903
Relation to Head: Adopted
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Walthamstow, Essex
Civil Parish: Walthamstow
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address: 139 Chelmsford Road, Walthamstow
Registration district: West Ham
Registration District Number: 188
Sub-registration district: Walthamstow
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Household schedule number: 132
Piece: 9682
Household Members:
Name Age
Harry Linsdell 35
Kate Linsdell 26
George Cloutman 10
Horace Cloutman 8

England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906 about Ella Madeline May Cloutman
Name: Ella Madeline May Cloutman
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 23 Jul 1899
Christening Date: 1 Oct 1899
Christening Place: Walthamstow, Essex, England
Age at Christening: 0
Father's Name: Thomas William Cloutman
Mother's name: May

Looks like he didn't die till 1939

Name: Thomas W Cloutman
Birth Date: abt 1875
Date of Registration: Mar 1939
Age at Death: 64
Registration district: Romford
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 638

Edit : his baptism

Name: Thomas William Cloutman
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 26 Apr 1874
Father's Name: Thomas Cloutman
Mother's name: Jane Cloutman
Parish or Poor Law Union: Hackney St John
Borough: Hackney
Register Type: Parish Registers

???

Name: Thomas Cloutman
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1907
Age at Death: 43
Registration district: West Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 77

So sometime he went to the West Country

Name: Horace A L Cloutman
Spouse Surname: Mullins
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1925
Registration district: Bath
Inferred County: Somerset
Volume Number: 5c
Page Number: 818
Find Spouse: Lena Mullins


Name: Horace Albert L Cloutman
Birth Date: 23 Apr 1902
Date of Registration: Jun 1973
Age at Death: 71
Registration district: Gloucester Rural
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 7b
Page: 1155

?

Name: George Thomas Cloutman
Birth Date: 17 Mar 1901
Date of Registration: Sep 1976
Age at Death: 75
Registration district: Colchester
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 9
Page: 1903


Could be him even though he had a third Christian name

Name: George Cameron Thomas Cloutman
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 18 Mar 1901
Christening Date: 12 May 1901
Christening Place: Walthamstow, Essex, England
Age at Christening: 0
Father's Name: Thomas William Cloutman
Mother's name: May



Looks like he married in 1975 Colchester to a Diane m Webb also known as Cloutman


Her death

Name: Diane Myfanwy Cloutman
Birth Date: 12 Dec 1919
Date of Registration: Nov 1996
Age at Death: 76
Registration district: Colchester
Inferred County: Essex
Register Number: B63C
District and Subdistrict: 4691B
Entry Number: 82

Although not directly related to your current request, were you aware that Thomas’ service records are on Ancestry

British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920 about Thomas Cloutman
(There is no reference to 1914-1920 amongst the images)

Name: Thomas Cloutman
Estimated birth year: abt 1874
Age at enlistment: 18
Birth Parish: Bethnal Green
Birth County: Middlesex
Document Year: 1892
Regimental Number: 3281
Regiment Name: Cameron Highlanders
Number of Images: 9

They give the date of his marriage to Ma(r)y Todd as 4 May 1899 at 26 St Stephens Road (Walthamstow?). That sounds more like an address than a place of marriage. The witness were Harry Todd and Sarah Ann Todd.

He’d been in service before he married
25 Apr 1892-20 Feb 1893 ‘at home’
21 Jan 1893 – 18 Jan 1895 Malta
19 Feb 1895 – 3 Oct 1897 Gibraltar
?????? – 4 Feb? 1900 Home
?? Feb 1900 – 30 Oct 1900 South Africa
???? – 1 Nov 1900 Home – Discharged then as being medically unfit

He’d been around a bit
Nile Expedition 1898
Battle of Atbara 8 Apr 1898
Battle of Khartoum 2 Sep 1898
Wounded at Omdurman 2 Sep 1898

He originally attested on 25 Apr 1892 at Shorncliffe Barracks (Kent) and wanted to join the Cameroon Highlanders

William was awarded quite a few campaign medals, possibly
Egyptian ___- medal & clasp
The Atbara & Khartoum/Queens Sudan medal
Queens SA medal & clasp

???

Name: Ella Madeline Foreman
Birth Date: 22 Jul 1899
Date of Registration: Jun 1979
Age at Death: 79
Registration district: Hillingdon
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 13
Page: 0853

Not seeing May,s death but looks like Thomas may have re married

Name: Thomas W Cloutman
Spouse Surname: Foster
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1917
Registration district: West Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Volume Number: 4a
Page Number: 613
Find Spouse: Daisy L Foster


Edit .she may have re married

Name: Daisy L Cloutman
Spouse Surname: Smith
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1943
Registration district: Ilford
Inferred County: Essex
Volume Number: 4a
Page Number: 1018
Find Spouse: Find Spouse

Picking up on Jonesey's death reg

London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965 about Ella M M Foreman
Name: Ella M M Foreman
Year: 1951
County or Borough: Southall
Ward or Division/Constituency: Southall North
Street address: 6 Derwent Road
Reference Number: MR/PER/C/0856

In the same household
Thomas W Foreman
Beryl E Meek

London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965 about Ella Madeline Foreman
Name: Ella Madeline Foreman
Year: 1935
County or Borough: Hillingdon
Ward or Division/Constituency: Uxbridge

Same address as 1951 - with Thomas William Foreman

London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965 about Ella Foreman
Name: Ella Foreman
Year: 1929
County or Borough: Wandsworth
Ward or Division/Constituency: Wandsworth
Street address: 492 Wandsworth Rd

With Thomas Foreman

Got a feeling that's a red herring :-0

Marriages Sep 1926 (>99%)
Cullen Ellen M Foreman Wandsworth 1d 1472
Foreman Thomas W Cullen Wandsworth 1d 1472

If £9.25 won't break the bank, it might be worth buying the DC.
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

Maiden name if a married or widowed woman would be shown from 1 April 1969

Thomas William Cloutman
Baptism Date:26 Apr 1874 (reported Born March 11 1874)
Father's Name:Thomas Cloutman (Carpenter)
Mother's name:Jane Cloutman
Parish or Poor Law Union:Hackney St John
Borough:Hackney
Register Type:Parish Registers
(abode, Essex Street)

Chris :)

1901 (another)
CLOUTMAN, Thomas Head Married M 37 1864 Manager Shell Box Manufacture
Woolwich,
Piece: 1598
Folio: 64
Page: 30
Registration District: West Ham
Civil Parish: East Ham
Municipal Borough:
Address: 22, Sibley Grove, East Ham
County: Essex


Cloutman Thomas
Burial date 08 August 1907
Manor Park Cemetery (Newham)

https://www.deceasedonline.com/servlet/GSDOSearch


Marriages Jun 1902 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------
Linsdell Henry Strand 1b 961
Sullivan Kate Strand 1b 961

(could be the couple on 1911, as below on FMP)

LINSDELL, Harry Head Married M 35 1876 Postal Porter Essex Walthamstow
LINSDELL, Kate Wife Married 8 years F 26 1885 Cheltenham Gloucester
CLOWMAN, George Adopted M 10 1901 Essex Walhamstow
CLOWMAN, Horace Adopted M 8 1903 Essex Walhamstow
RG number: RG14
Piece: 9682
Reference: RG14PN9682 RG78PN514A RD188 SD10 ED8 SN132
Registration District: West Ham
Sub District: Walthamstow
Enumeration District: 8
Parish: Walthamstow
Address: 139 Chelmsford Road Walhamstow
County: Essex

Hello Stephen and welcome to the Community boards.




Note: I will let Stephen know that he has replies to his query :-)

1931 Wandsworth it actually says Ella Madeline May Foreman.

No marriage jumping out so maybe they weren't unless they married abroad.

Where was she 1911?

Maryb.

Just been having a read through this and Maryb is quite right - she is recorded by her full name in 1931 at 350 Wandsworth Road.

The first appearance of Ella and Thomas William Foreman is 1929 at 492 Wandsworth Road. She wouldn't appear before that as the voting age for women was just lowered from 30 in 1928. The couple are together through the 1930s, 40s & 50s (as DET posted above) at 6 Derwent road, Uxbridge. From the early 60s she's at 8 Villiers Road with people called Parfitt at the same address.

Thomas William Foreman died 1962:

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Deaths Mar 1962
FOREMAN Thomas W 72 Brighton 5h 148

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966
Name: Thomas William Foreman
Probate Date: 17 Apr 1962
Death Date: 12 Feb 1962
Death Place: Sussex, England
Registry: Lewes

Of 1 Manor Close, Henfield, Sussex. Died Royal Sussex Hospital, Brighton. Probate to widow Ella Madeline Foreman. Effects £8353 17s 5d.
...........................................................................................................

Personally, I think the 1926 marriage that DET posted might just be her. It could be a horrible mangling of her name, she might even have already had a short marriage, she may have been brought up using another name ....

On the 1951 electrol roll there is Beryl E Meek, I think this is her,

Births Sep 1924 (>99%)
Foreman Beryl E Cullen E.Preston 2b 502


Surname First name(s) Mother/Spouse/Age District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1946 (>99%)
Foreman Beryl E Meek Uxbridge 5f 901
Meads Florence R Slade Uxbridge 5f 901
Meek Denis F Foreman Uxbridge 5f 901
Slade Morris W Meads Uxbridge 5f 901

She marries again in 1953.


So if her mother is Ella, she was registered prior to their marriage, and it looks as if Ella was using Cullen as her maiden name.

Still can't see Ella in 1911.

Maryb