Genealogy Chat

What a joy to deal with East Yorkshire Archive! They are always pleasant, helpful and knowledgeable. If you have hit a "brick wall", a day spent in the Archive is well worth the trip. Beverley is a lovely small town.

Nothing obvious;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_townlands_of_County_Mayo

http://www.irish-place-names.com/

Hi, ive just received this email below fro the
east Yorkshire archives:
Where is Dunatas in County Mayo?
Wow really excite!!

Dear Mark Thank you for your enquiry. I confirm we hold the parish records for Grindale, Scalby and the churches of Scarborough. As you mentioned John was born in Grindale in 1850 we checked the baptism register and found the following details. 13th Jan 1850 John Son of John & Catharine Rowley of Grindall (or Dunatas, County Mayo, Ireland), Labourer, H Green, Offg. Minister This appears to give you the township in county Mayo you were looking for. If you would like we can provide a copy of the baptism entry, the fee for this would be £4.89. To order please complete the attached form and return it with your remittance, made payable to East Riding of Yorkshire council, to the address below. Yours sincerely Mrs H ClarkTreasure House SupervisorEast Riding Archive and Local Studies ServiceCounty HallBeverleyHU17 9BA

Thank you Mark and a Merry Christmas to you too.

Astra
x

Ok that is purchased as soon as it has arrived I'll let you have a copy!

Merry Christmas!

Patrick is my direct ancestor.
Your right about the birth certificate - I think I will get it
thank you

Unfortunately not. Parents birthplaces weren't given only their current address, father's occupation and mother's maiden name.
Do you know if his birth was registered?
Yes it was. Grindale is in the Bridlington Registration district.

Births Sep 1847 (>99%)
Rowley John Bridlington 23 19

It will be useful if only to confirm Catherine's maiden name and you will have their address to add to your tree. £9 well spent in my opinion.

Which of their children is your direct ancestor?

Thank you for the help!......I wonder if I buy the birth certificate of john rowley the son that was born in grindale....would it help with a birth place of the parents?

Thanks for that Mark. It's annoying that there is nothing on the death certificate to link John to Catherine apart from his name. The informant was Jane Anderson but she may have been a workhouse official. Will take a look later.

For the benefit of the other researchers the marriage certificate to Francis Mcguire names her father as Michael Freney Agricultural Labourer and the witnesses were James and Ellen Nicholas.
Catherine's address is given as 10 Potter Lane Scarborough and Francis as 11 Castle gate Scarborough. His father is Roderick Mcguire a Tide Waiter.

Added: Looking at the 1851 census Jane Anderson is the workhouse nurse so that accounts for her presence at John's death.
Re the death I posted earlier for Catherine. There is a birth of a Catherine Mcguire in the previous quarter so it could be they had a daughter Catherine who died.

Hi Mark

If you click on my name it will take you to the message centre. You can attach documents to your message there.

Astra
x

Is ther an way to attach documents on here then I can send it to you?

Thanks

Mmm. If Catherine was born in 1824 then she is maybe not the mother of Patrick born 1838. There is no obvious marriage for her and John Rowley so maybe they didn't tie the knot at all.

What are the details on John's death certificate.

Which birth certificates do you have for the children?

Many apologies on my part, just to confirm the sons:

Patrick 1838 born Ireland
Thomas 1842 born Ireland
Owen 1845 born Ireland
John 1847 born grindale

I do have the 1851 census......copy of marriage death certs but im lost in terms of getting further back or something concrete back to Ireland......

The marriage of catherine to Francis mcguire was 6th October 1857......
She was 33 yrs old.....he was from USA

John Rowley (father) died Scarborough workhouse 21st feb 1850 or 1851

Your dates and names and birth places do not all match up - is this just errors on the part of the enumerators?

e.g. You have put that the sons are Owen, Thomas, William and John, but in the workhouse they are Patrick (10 in 1851), Thomas (8 in 1851), Owen (6 in 1851) and John, (John's name appearing above the rest of the family in the list) - John age 11, born Grindale.
There is a John Maling born 1847, Ireland, immediately after the family

The census that Astra has posted (better transcribed in Ancestry) has John as born in Ireland in 1847.
Presumably Mary and James were illegitimate children?

If Patrick was born in 1841/1840, and Catherine was born in 1827/1826 (according to 1861) then she was very young for marriage.

I can see that you have got lots of information, so presumably all these errors can be explained, I was just trying to tie everything up 100%

This is the 1861 census showing Catherine and Francis. It is badly transcribed but the children are noted as Rowley on the original and Jonas is Francis. He is not in the fishing industry but is a Brickmakers labourer.

1861 census transcription details for: 2, Shutons Yard, Scarborough


National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG09
Piece: 3619
Folio: 67
Page: 34
Reg. District: Scarborough
Sub District: 2 Scarborough
Parish: Scarborough
Enum. District: 16
Ecclesiastical District: St Thomas
City/Municipal Borough: Scarborough
Address: 2, Shutons Yard, Scarborough
County: Yorkshire (North riding)
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
MAGUIRE, Jonas Head Married M 33 1828
...States, America British Subject
MAGUIRE, Cathrine Wife Married F 34 1827
Ireland
MAGUIRE, John Son M 14 1847 Scholar
Ireland
MAGUIRE, Mary Daughter F 7 1854 Scholar
Scarborough, Yorkshire
MAGUIRE, Francis Son M 4 1857 Scholar
Scarborough, Yorkshire

Catherine's death??

Deaths Mar 1862 (>99%)
MCQUIRE Catharine Scarbro 9d 204

There might be more details in the workhouse records. I don't know where those are. If it were me, my next step would be to contact the main library at Scarborough and ask them if they hold a copy, and if not, who does.

Here is an overview:

In 1810 John Rowley was born in Ireland, he married Catherine Freney who was born in County Mayo, Ireland. They had 4 sons,...3 of whom were Patrick, Thomas and Owen all born in County Mayo, Ireland, the fourth son was called John Rowley, he was born in GRINDALE near Bridlington. The family moved to GRINDALE at about mid 1840s (time of the potato famine in Ireland. From GRINDALE, they moved on to Scarborough, they appear in the 1851 census in the Scarborough workhouse, John Rowley the father is dead at this point - he died of "diseased lungs" in 1850, so Catherine Rowley (the mother) was now a widower with 4 kids in the Scarborough workhouse. Catherine later remarried in 1857 to a man called Francis McGuire, they married in Scarborough, but dissappear from the future census'. Owen Rowley the son, cannot be traced either. Francis McGuire was in the fisherman industry, it is assumed he taught and got the 4 Rowley sons involved in fishing, as it is a massive occupation in most of the Rowley decendants in Scarborough

Hi Potty, yes I have, John Died in 1851 so he obviously doesn't appear on any census after that, but Catherine and the boys are found in other census' with a man called McGuire.
Catherine later married him.

I've been stuck on this "dead end" for some years now and I'd just love to try and get a trace somehow back to County Mayo, Ireland.

I have a copy of John's death certificate..........for me the next step would be to go to Scarborough and try searching through the local newspapers at the time of his death to see if there are any more clues.

I have found that a lot of the census' are not exactly specific, they either say Ireland, or County Mayo - but a town / parish etc would be great.

Many thanks for everybodys help.

Have you found John or any of his family on any census except the 1851?

Mark, this is the LDS (Mormons) site:

https://familysearch.org/search/record/results