Genealogy Chat

Hello,

I'm trying to find out about my nana - Ernestine Ehrmann. To my knowledge she was born in Estonia 1910. She went to university in Estonia and took a year off (which imagine would have been very rear in such a time) She then left Estonia by ship to England but I have been told a soldier (perhaps her other half) tried to stop her frok leaving the country at gun point. When in England she ended up in Blackpool with Charles E Tomlinson (who previously married to Annie Bamford - daughter of Samuel Bamford the Editor of cooperative newspaper).

Nana very much kept her history to herself, so when my father and I travelled to Estonia we got very little information and on top of that just before my nana passed away i have been told that she started speaking hebrew.

This is all a great mystery and I do not know how to even start finding out about family history beyond Ernestine Ehrmann.

Can anybody offer any suggestion on how I should begin of if there are any sites for Estonian genes reunited.

Thank you very much

WIll

A quick Google doesn't look very encouraging, I'm afraid:

http://www.aai.ee/~urmas/urm/vast.html

http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/localities.scan-balt.estonia.general/mb.ashx

http://www.isik.ee/english/

http://www.ra.ee/vau/index.php/en/page/article/index

http://www.feefhs.org/links/estonia.html

And others - Google "Estonia genealogy"

http://eja.pri.ee/Genealogy/A%20Simple%20Guide.pdf

Did she marry in this country?

not seeing her death ??

did she marry ?

Hi ArgyllGran,

Thank you very much for the quick reply. I've only had time to look at http://eja.pri.ee/Genealogy/A%20Simple%20Guide.pdf and it looks very interesting.

After going though the links would it be ok to keep in touch, just incase I found out in information.

All the best
Will

Hi Penny,

Yes she did but i'm not sure where and when. I presume it would have been in Blackpool.

As a foreign national she would have had to register as an alien during the first world war
you can contact the archive office where she was living at the time

my great grandfather's Alien registartion document gave the exact region he came from along with other details such as his profession and a photo ;

Good luck ,look forward to seeing how you get on .

Hi Shirley,

Ernestine Ehrmann (Ernestine Tomlinson)
Died 1995
Christopher's Hospice
51-59 Lawrie Park Road
London SE26 6DZ

And yes she did marry Charles Ernest Tomlinson for Goold (previously married to Annie Bamford)
Birth: 1874
Yorkshire - Couper Street in Goole
Death: 1949
BLACKPOOL Lancashire England

All the best
Will

Ernestine would not have been in England at the time of WWI? born in 1910, attended university in Estonia ...

I can't see a death registration record that resembles the Ernestine 1995 death in any way. What record have you quoted there? nor can I see a marriage for them at all.

and could you explain

And yes she did marry Charles Ernest Tomlinson *for Goold*

?

Charles Ernest Tomlinson and Annie Bamford married in Manchester in 1904.

1911 in Blackpool

Charles Ernest Tomlinson 37
Annie Tomlinson 39 no children

I think Charles predeceased Annie

Name: Annie Tomlinson
Birth Date: abt 1872
Date of Registration: Mar 1961
Age at Death: 89
Registration District: Blackpool
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10b
Page: 708

so I think maybe Charles and Ernestine were not married, unless Charles and Annie divorced?

There are no Tomlinson-Ehrmann births.

Do you have your parent's birth certificate or have you found the registration record to see what the mother's surname shown is?

There were no births with mother Ehrmann in England/Wales 1920-1960.

and there were no Ehrmann births in England/Wales 1925-1950.

Your parent's birth certificate is the only way you are going to find the name that their mother gave when the birth was registered which could help you find more info about her.


wait ... could this possibly be the marriage?

Name: ENNA ERMA
Spouse Surname: Tomlinson
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1939
Registration District: Westminster
Inferred County: Middlesex
Volume Number: 1a
Page Number: 1926
Spouse: Charles E Tomlinson

Yes, yes. There are two births to that marriage in Blackpool.

Name: Enna Tomlinson
Birth Date: 10 Sep 1908
Date of Registration: Nov 1994
Age at Death: 86
Registration District: Bromley
Inferred County: Kent
Register Number: B23
District and Subdistrict: 2221B
Entry number: 267

If you search at familysearch.org
you will find a few references to the surname ERMA in Estonia, also IRMAH.

at www.mundia.com (same trees as at Ancestry but free to register, search and send messages)

just search for surname ERMA born in Estonia. There are many. You might find someone who can give some guidance on researching that family name in Estonia.

I wonder whether the surname Härma might be related

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Estonian-language_surnames

ther are several Harma marriages in England from 1960 onward and some given names are Estonian.

this page contains an historical reference to someone named Illu Erma

http://estonia94.blogspot.ca/2013_09_01_archive.html

so I just googled that name and found a modern-day person by that name

https://www.facebook.com/illu.erma?_fb_noscript=1

who might possibly be able to shed some light on the name/family

I guess the big question is whether Erma is a Jewish surname and that was the reason behind Ernestine's emigration ... or possibly her name was Ehrmann and she 'Anglicized' it, or made it more Estonian, to Erma, to avoid the Jewish and/or German connotation, given that she married in England in 1941.

I do not subscribe for incoming passenger records at Ancestry

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=1518

but I see two entries for the surname Erma and one for Earma ... well suddenly it is showing me details when I ask for keyword Estonia and no, those were incoming passengers in 1905,1912 and 1921 from the USA. A strange fluke, it will not show me the details again now :-)

there are several records for Ernestine Ehrmann/Ehrman entering England. Those would probably be worth seeing the details of. One is found when the search is narrowed to 1930-1940 ... further narrowing makes it 1930.

Charles Tomlinson came from Goole.

Possibly her trip from Estonia landed her in Goole.

I know he was in Blackpool, and children born in Blackpool, though married in London, but Goole was an active port, and if she got on a boat from Estonia it had to navigate a circuitous route to get to England

If born in 1910 and stopped a university course she would have arrived some time before 1941 as would be 31 then, so had to meet him somewhere, not necessarily London.

Just some ideas.

Sorry, just noticed JoonieCloonie narrowing down to 1930, makes sense.

There were several routes to England, and not all those from the Baltics sailed direct from there for one reason or another, mainly finances, so don't discount checking the Hamburg lists, ie sailing from Hamburg to the UK.
My grandfather jumped on train to Hamburg and sailed to Grimbsy
Sorry, got to go out now but will check back later . :-)

K

I don't have access to electoral roll information at Ancestry but these entries that I have worked out from targeted searching might be interesting

Charles Tomlinson, London, 1928 and 1929

Charles E Tomlinson, I can't tell where, 1945 and 1946

I agree that Hamburg is worth looking at, I had a family member who travelled to Australia via Hamburg in the early 20th century.

If Charles had to get a divorce in order to marry Ernestine, they may well have met / been together well before their marriage.

William you do know that a family member of yours has Enna Erma 1906 in their tree here at Genes Reunited .......................

Charles E Tomlinson
Year: 1945
County or Borough: Wandsworth
Ward or Division/Constituency: Battersea
Street Address: 24 H8 with Hilda E

Charles E Tomlinson
Year: 1946
County or Borough: Wandsworth
Ward or Division/Constituency: Battersea
Street Address: 24 Gee with Hilda E

Charles E Tomlinson
Year: 1955
County or Borough: Wandsworth
Ward or Division/Constituency: Battersea with Hilda E

Not him then - that would be a marriage in 1937 in Battersea.

I think William's first line of inquiry should really be the family member (sibling? cousin?) who has Enna Erma in their tree here ... although that person may well know no more than what I have found here about the marriage and death of Enna.

JoonieCloonie, thank you very much for you reply and all the information. My Dad (Ernest Valdur Tomlinson) passed away away just a month ago so i've been back in Devon this weekend going through his stuff and you're correct I came across a registration of my Nana's (Enna Erma's) change of her first and surname in Tallin. Why she did is now the next stage.

Thank you so much for all the links I will go through them this week.

I have one question, how do you know I have a relative on Genes Reunited and how do I find them on the site?

All the best
Will

Go to Search/Search All Member Trees and put in Enna Erme's name.

You will found your relative has her birth as 2 years different to the one that you give, which is not your quoted 1910..