Genealogy Chat

I recently ordered marriage certificate copies for two couples I had researched in my family. They both came back with a refund with a failure to locate. Reasons given:
1. "We have searched indexes for events registered in England and Wales during the years specified (1837-1839). We have been unable to find any entry with the details you provided."
2. Each page in a register contains several marriage entries. The persons requested are on this page at the reference you quoted, however they are not married to each other."
Having double-checked everything (ages, children, census records, regions) and found that as far as I'm concerned the spouses couldn't be anyone else, I am convinced that I am right about both these. So, either I have got it wrong, they have it wrong, or I am doing something wrong. Anyone else had a similar experience and/or anyone have any suggestions about where I go from here? I can provide more details if necessary - just wanted to start off more generally.
Thanks anyone out there who can help.
Martyn

Did you give the GRO reference number for these certificates? If so it is probably better to just name one person on each certificate (preferably the person that you are certain you are looking for as you could be wrong about the spouse). You can't always be sure that the name a person gives on the census is actually their first name - for instance someone named as Ann on a census may be using a middle name and on a marriage certificate may be recorded as Sarah Ann etc.)

If you would like to give details of whose marriage certificates you are looking for perhaps someone on here could help.

Kath. x

Always use the GRO reference and only ever Name one person "usualy the Groom where possible" on marriage cert,

As Kath said, The GRO will never supply a cert if some of the info provided is incorrect

Roy

The period (1837-1839) How many entries where their on the page and were any missing? was their an equal number of males to females? Did you use the transcribed info without checking the actual index image for both bride and groom?

Roy

If you gave both names they would have looked at the marriage cert and seen that the names didn't match ,

Sounds like you thought the parties had married each other but this wasn't the case

Honestly, which do you think is more likely - that the GRO should look at 2 names on the same m.cert and claim they're on difft m.certs, or that you've stuffed up. I know which I'ld put my money on.

I presume this marr wasn't covered by any local index, just the GRO index - see:
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/local_bmd

Thanks to everyone so far for your tips.
On this site we have this page
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/record?recordid=bmd%2fm%2f1892%2f2%2faz%2f000196%2f228
on which it says: "John Henry Lawrence married one of the people below", and there is only one: "Elizabeth Burrup"

On the familysearch.com site we have "John Laurence" (I had previously noticed the different spelling so that's not the reason) "marriage 16 January 1837 at St Alban Worcester spouse - Hannah Haynes."
He was born Upton Snodsbury Worcs (1802) and she was born in Feckenham (1816): the difference in age gives a clue and iot's the same two in the censuse who move to Newport (Monmouthshire) and have several children, all of whom I have traced. That was the reason for my question.
Thanks again so far.
Martyn

The marriage you mention was on 16th January 1837. Civil registration didn't start until July 1837 so there will not be a marriage certificate for this marriage - only the parish record.

Kath. x

When did registration start? I thought 1/7/1837

Thank you Kath: most useful.
So presumably I wouldn't get that breakdown unless I to to Worcester.

Martyn

You can also access parish records at your nearest LDS Family History Centre for just a few pounds. The addresses of the Centres can be found here (just enter your postcode or town name to find the nearest one):-

https://familysearch.org/locations/centerlocator

Kath. x

This place has parish records for St Alban parish, Worcester, on microfilm.

http://www.worcestershire.gov.uk/cms/archive-and-archaeology/visiting-us1.aspx

Thanks again. I seem to have quite a bit to be getting on with. I'll let everyone know how I get on.
M

Martyn


you would do far better to look for bmds on the site that we all use ....... it is free

www.freebmd.org.uk


it carries all bmds from the start of civil registration on 1 July 1837 to approximately 1960.

It sounds like this site is the absolute worst to use for marriage searches!

Both freebmd and ancestry let you look at the full list of names that have the same page and volume numbers in the same registration district in a quarter. (the transcription at Ancestry up to 1916 comes from freebmd)

That way you can see whether there may be names missing, for example if there are 3 brides and 2 grooms. That will be because freebmd has made an error in the transcription and one of the grooms or brides has been given the wrong page or volume number. And that way you can test who married whom by looking for possible couples in the next censuses.

Genesreunited actually has no business saying "John Henry Lawrence married one of the people below"! because it can't guarantee that it has transcribed the information correctly. (it is being transcribed from a list that is in alphabetical order, so none of the names actually appear together, that is done by the software)

This is what freebmd has for those names:

Marriages Jun 1892
Barrett Elizabeth Newport, M. 11a 388
BURRUP Elizabeth Newport M. 11a 388
HINE George Newport M. 11a 388
Lawrence John Henry Newport, M. 11a 388

so it seems Lawrence must have married Barrett. Although it's possible there are other transcription problems and one of those names ended up there incorrectly, and the one that should have been there ended up somewhere else - it does happen. :-)

Would getting one of the childrens birth certificates help?

Just seen your post JoonieCloonie and this looks very interesting as my cousin (my mother's sister's daughter) tells me that her mum used to tell her John Henry Lawrence married an Elizabeth, but she thought she was a Barrett (Barrett-Burrup, easily confused), but as I couldn't find a Barrett I assumed that must be wrong, but it seems you may have hit upon something, which I have missed. So thanks so much while I go and check it all out. I'll be back as they say and in the meantime thanks to all who have offered their advice so far

ElizabethK - thanks for that suggestion; I guess it would - I'll research the Barrett bit and then have a look.
Martyn

You are very welcome and now you know where to look next time, for free :-)

Getting the birth certificate of a known child as Elizabeth says is always the best (and really the only) way to know you have the right couple.

I am also having trouble finding a marriage certificate from GRO \i was asking for Willian Speller married to Elizabeth Searle, they sent me a certificate for a John Boatman married to Elizabeth Searle, The page No: Vol No: and quarter all matched with the each other, but the line No: was different after checking on several sites I asked them to check it, well the answer was in a nut shell you are wrong and we are right !!!! Where do I go to from here. :-S Margaret