Genealogy Chat

MarieCeleste,

That name sounds like French nobility. I know little of French history though, and I am quite receptive of being corrected for my ignorance...that's how I learn!
Ha ha!

But thanks for those interesting snippets, they add colour to the family history game.

I'm pedantic myself! Whenever I see poor spelling or punctuation it irritates me.
'Eats, shoots and leaves' was a good read in these matters. :-)

????


Name: George Probin
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: 11 Nov 1885
Event Place: , Malpas, Cheshire, England
Gender: Male
Age (Formatted): 23y
Marital Status: Single
Father's Name: John Probin
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Name: Annie Edge
Spouse's Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Father's Name: Thomas Edge
Spouse's Mother's Name:
GS Film number: 2068514
Digital Folder Number: 004018811
Image Number: 00864

Thanks for that safc, it looks useful.

Hi All,

Some new information!

George Tushingham, born 1845 died 1924 in Chester appears to have had three marriages:

The first to Mary Richardson on 16th April, 1868 in Chester. George is aged 23, and Mary, 21. This marriage is confirmed by both the certificate and a National Probate Calendar item on the dates stated, as follows:
"George Tushingham of The New Inn, Walter Street. Probate date: 13 Feb 1924;
Death date: 17Jan 1924; Cheshire, England. Administration to John Richardson Tushingham, licensed victualler. Effects: £1,901-9s-2d."
(Thanks to alviegal for this info).

The second coupling is on 16th June,1874, in the same church, St John, Chester, to Mary Jackson, aged 26, spinster. George is down as a widower, aged 29, a publican, with his father described as Samuel Tushingham, farmer, (as per both marriage certificates).

The mystery starts with only one death recorded of a Mary Tushingham being available: Born 1847, died 1888. in Chester. Vol 8A event qtr 1, page 293 line 365.

Looking at the above raw data, George appears to have committed bigamy! He married the second wife before the death of his first!

The third 'marriage' cannot be found, or proven, in the absence of a marriage certificate.
She is named as Annie Tushingham in the 1901 and 1911 censuses as his wife, aged 34 in 1901, born Whitchurch, Salop in 1867.

After or during his first wife's death in 1888, the year of the birth of Mary E. Tushingham, probably in childbirth, the remaining issue could have been with either Mary Jackson or Annie 'no-name'. There is no clear proof of exactly who this Annie is!

But the possibility of bigamy is there in his second marriage.

Any comments would be welcome, please!

:-)

Dates are a little out but it's a possibility

Births Mar 1869 (>99%)
TUSHINGHAM John Gt. Boughton 8a 377

and death of Mary. It could be that she died in childbirth.

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Mary Tushingham
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1869
Age at Death: 19
Registration District: Great Boughton
Inferred County: Cheshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 261

Posted 23 June 2013 as a possibility (same death as Astra has posted above)
????
Mary Richardson was said to be aged 21 when she married George in 1868 and her father was named as John.

I'm wondering about this Mary who has a father John. There is a birth in the Mar Qtr 1849 in the Great Boughton RD 19-46 of a Mary Richardson and death in the same RD 8A 261 in 1869 of a Mary Tushingham aged 19.

I know it makes the marriage age wrong, but that wouldn't be a first!

Great Boughton was an area to the East of but also part of Chester. Christleton and Barrow are within a couple of miles too.

Again, suggested marriage by Astra immediately following the OP, with a suggestion further along as to why it may have been delayed and out of area

Marriages Jun 1902 (>99%)
Jones Edmund Crowdson Liverpool 8b 111
>>PROBYN Annie Liverpool 8b 111
Thoms Mary Liverpool 8b 111
>>Tushingham George Liverpool 8b 111

Thanks Astra and Stuart. I shall take a look at your suggestions and get back sometime this weekend.

Horrace.

It makes sense because in census records John gives his birthplace as Christleton which is in the Great Boughton registration district.
So I automatically checked Great Boughton as the area to search.
The birth is there and the death in the same quarter.
George notes himself as single in the 1871 census record and I think John is with the Atkin family as a boarder in Christleton.

1871 census transcription details for: Christleton, Christleton

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG10
Piece: 3727
Folio: 40
Page: 26
Reg. District: Chester
Sub District: Chester Castle
Parish: Christleton
Enum. District: 11
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Christleton, Christleton
County: Cheshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
ATKIN, Joseph Head M 52 1819 Cheshire
ATKIN, Sarah Wife F 47 1824 Cheshire
ATKIN, Mary Daughter F 17 1854 Cheshire
TUSHINGHAM, John Boarder M 2 1869 Cheshire
JONES, Louise Visitor F 24 1847 Cheshire

Hi Astra and Stuart,

I can't get past the fact that the administration information I posted actually links George's licensed premises, The New Inn, with Mary Richardson's maiden name; it seems to clinch the deal. Of course, it could be mere coincidence but seems a bit unlikely. However, I'm far from infallible! :-)

My wife's mother, Fridiswid Mary Tushingham, was George's granddaughter and worked at The New Inn as a teenager, collecting empties and cleaning the bar and other public rooms.

I doubt we will ever get to solving this particular question though. But I'll still look at your information again.

Horrace :-)

I think that all the administration (probate) proves is that the executor of George's will was one John Richardson Tushingham.
John was his eldest son and probably took on the name Richardson to denote his parentage. He was a publican himself and when he died in Boughton in 1942 he left over £3,700 .
Personally I don't think that any of George's marriages were bigamous but I think you need to get the marriage certificate of Annie Probyn in 1902 in Liverpool or at least order it asking for confirmation of George's father's name.

Hi Astra,

Thank you for your latest info. about John, as George's eldest son born of Mary Richardson. I'm intrigued that John never appears in any of the census records at The New Inn.

I think you've basically solved the whole mystery. I got 'stuck' in my thinking and should have taken a broader look at things, as you have done. But I'll take your advice and send for the marriage cert of Annie Probyn and George.
I'll let you know the outcome when I get the document.

H

So I see you have accepted my information as a strong probability now.

I think the death you have is actuall y Mary Jackson.

Remenber not all records are legible so her death may not be transcribed.

Hello LadyKira,

Yes, it would seem so!

My apologies for not following up your suggestion and information. I've looked back at all your contributions to my queries and you gave me a lot of useful data. There were so many things to think about after I'd received all the advice from our fellow researchers that I had to try to get my head around them all! But one fairly long contribution from you to my question gave me what I should have concentrated on and followed up. I was too 'fixed' in my own erroneous ideas that I completely lost sight of some of the more important contributions!


Best wishes and many thanks,

H :-)

I too have been in the situation that what I thought I knew did not tie in with facts. Always a good idea to step ack a bit and be open minded.
I looked at the Chester pubs and want to show my OH.
He went to King's School Chester and some of his mispent youth in Chester pubs. He took me to the Boot in the Rows once. Very atmospheric.

Hi Astra and Stuart,

You two also gave me useful data on the death of the first Mary (Richardson). She seems, as you say Astra, to have died in childbirth having John. And her age on marriage did throw me a little Stuart. Also the 1888 death I found was the wrong person and much later.
H :-)

You're most welcome Horrace.
I look forward to finding out if the marriage is correct or not,

Astra
x

Astra and Stuart,

I've looked at the records of those marriages in Liverpool in 1902 that you both mention:

One: Annie Probin (sic) married Edmund Crowdson Jones. and...
One: George Tushlingham (sic) married Mary Thoms.

So there is no record of the pair you suggest, in order to have the basis for ordering their marriage certificate.

Correct me if you think I'm wrong, please. :-)

Hi Horrace
Where did you find that information?

This is the marriage record from Lancs BMD.

Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
PROBYN Annie TUSHINGHAM George Liverpool, St. Michael in the City Liverpool 2054LP/11/133

So it appears she did marry George Tushingham and it is OK to order the cerrt. to confirm.

Astra
x

Hi Astra,

That is great information Astra!

Thank you very much for your continued help.

The information I referred to, and followed up, was given to me in this form, by one of our colleagues!

"Marriages Jun 1902. Jones Edmund Crowdson, Liverpool 8b111
PROBYN Annie, Liverpool 8b111
Thoms Mary, Liverpool 8b111
Tushingham George, Liverpool 8b111

And the results of which search I made, you have just seen and commented on

H