Genealogy Chat

John - thanks for that info.

I've never been to SE Wales - was just reading a map.

Our local hill (as distinct from mountain) has a geodisic dome on top, housing plants, parrots etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B2SwiICKMk&feature=related
My son took me out there last week - well really to the baseball stadium near the foot of the hill - for the last game of the season. You can't really see much inside the stadium, but you get the youtube views of the N Shore mountains from the car-park - I must rate it as one of the best car parks in the city.

Sorry mgnv That will be bus station. Right next door to the large building which is the indoor market. Some nice old Victorian and early 20th century buildings in centre.

Have you seen the new school up on the hill? It dominates Maesteg, and I was certain it was a prison till somebody told me it was a very good school. How could they put something as horrible as that in such a lovely place?

On 2/4/1911 (census night) Thomas Davies was Master of the Bridgend & Cowbridge Union Workhouse. (image 761 of 784)

I just had a look at this document and could see that the Registrar at the workhouse was a Margaret Davies. Signature of the registrar who singed the birth certificate was Margaret Davies, so I think I can say my uncle was born in the infirmary of the workhouse.

Gloria good weekends work there Thanks all .

Thanks Yes I will do that. will let you know if I find any more information.

Gloria - if you get hold of the records, maybe you can also checkout that 1915q2 birth

John - it's a red dot with a red bar thru it - it's abt 200 m SW of the westernmost of the 2 railway station on the OS thumbnail.

Wow !!! I can't believe you have found all that information. I can't thank you enough Its going to take me a month to digest it all :-D. I have emailed the relevant record office to see if they hold records for the workhouse - infirmary for the years I need fingers crossed.
All I need now is to find out more about the family that adopted him my cousin was only little and can remember a man they called gramp Llewellynn Edwards and Mam Lilly who she thinks was his second wife.

I added Dinah Cockerell to my tree as mother to Norman and received a hot match. this morning after looking at this ladies tree its the same Dinah Cockerell family may not know of Norman's birth. But I'm confidentent its the same Dinah.

Unfortunately not able to see what you are seeing. Juts got a little thumbnail of an Ordnance map. The only red circles I can see are railway stations on the local line down the valley to Bridgend. Golden Terrace is adjacent to a railway bridge.

John - can you tell me what is the red Circle Bar Ranch symbol near Talbot & Commercial on the inset map at http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/SS8591

mgnv Staggered what you have found out :-0 Like a dog with a rabbit :-D

I actually know the streets you are referring to quite well. As you say, Bethania St is the main drag in from Bridgend and changes to Commercial St just after the right turn down the hill with the fairly isolated Golden Terrace on left (a flat terrace with about 40 houses and a dead end) before you go under bridge.

Never heard of Rock St, but the old Carmel Chapel (which still stands, I believe) was in Rock St so it must be off Bethania St. The Minister lived in Llangynwyd parish, which is next place south of Maesteg on road down to Bridgend. But all addresses about half a mile to three quarters of a mile south of the town centre.

I had a look at all Cockerell BMDs in Bridgend/Haverford 1885-1921 - actually looked up Cock*l.
There's some comments I have - in 1911, Ada says she has 9 live births in her marriage - we know the 6 living - her 5 kids on 1911 + Dinah.
No, it's the 3 dead kids that's the bother - I can only find 2:

Births Mar 1896 (>99%)
Cockerell George Gulliver Bridgend 11a 779
Deaths Mar 1897 (>99%)
Cockerell George Gulliver 1 Bridgend 11a 448

Births Dec 1900 (>99%)
Cockerell Gertrude Ann Bridgend 11a 793
Deaths Jun 1901 (>99%)
Cockerell Gertrude Ann 0 Bridgend 11a 433

Now 1911 form says:
"State, for each Married Woman entered on this Schedule, the number of:-
Children born alive to the present Marriage."
Well, clearly Ada either didn't understand the question completely, or she had a more flexible view of "marriage".
So I'm wondering if the 9th kid was born as a Lewis before Ada wed.
There are a couple of Lewis born and dying within the previous year.
There's also a couple born before or in the marr quarter and dying later.

I've only just noticed unwed Jane has a kid (also crossed out by the enumertor), presumably the Mary Ada on the census.

Births Mar 1911 (>99%)
Cockerell Mary A Bridgend 11a 949
Deaths Dec 1912 (>99%)
COCKERILL Mary A 1 Bridgend 11a 825

Marriages Dec 1911 (>99%)
Bennett Dora E Bridgend 11a 1568
Cockerell Jane Bridgend 11a 1568
Davies John Bridgend 11a 1568
Roberts Thomas J Bridgend 11a 1568

Births Dec 1916 (>99%)
Roberts Islwyn H Cockerall Bridgend 11a 1547

Births Sep 1919 (>99%)
Roberts Irene M Cockrall Bridgend 11a 1661

Births Dec 1920 (>99%)
Roberts Bronwen Cockerell Bridgend 11a 1812


There's a couple of Thomas-Cockerell kids 1919q1, 1920q3.


There's a couple of Cockerall-Court kids 1915q1, 1917q1 but the later died in the same quarter.

Marriages Mar 1914 (>99%)
Cockerell John G Court Bridgend 11a 1195
Court Ethel M Cockerell Bridgend 11a 1195


This birth, I don't recognize:

Births Dec 1916 (>99%)
Salmon Ethel W Cockerell Bridgend 11a 1620

Marriages Dec 1914 (>99%)
Cockerill Edith Salmon Cardiff 11a 748
Salmon Ernest W Cockevill Cardiff 11a 748
[transcriptions match images]


We know this is your rellie you started with:

Births Jun 1912 (>99%)
Cockerell ****** * Cockerell Bridgend 11a 1871

===============================================================
I SUSPECT THIS ONE IS ALSO DINAH'S, OR MAYBE ELIZABETH'S:

Births Jun 1915 (>99%)
Cockerell ***** * Cockerell Bridgend 11a 1833
===============================================================


The other marrs and deaths of interest I saw were:

Marriages Sep 1925 (>99%)
Cockerell Mary A Daniel Bridgend 11a 1791
Daniel William E Cockerell Bridgend 11a 1791

Marriages Sep 1928 (>99%)
Cockerell Elizabeth Thomas Bridgend 11a 1823
Thomas William H Cockerell Bridgend 11a 1823


Deaths Dec 1909 (>99%)
COCKERELL Henry 44 Bridgend 11a 448

Deaths Mar 1950 (>99%)
Cockerell Ada 84 Bridgend 8b 28

Deaths Jun 1962 (FAKE-UP)
Thomas Dinah 68 Bridgend 8b 11

1911 Wales Census
Civil parish: Cwmdu
County/Island: Glamorgan
Street Address: 21 Commercial St Maesteg
Registration district: Bridgend
Registration District Number: 591
Sub-registration district: Maesteg
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Source Citation: Class: RG14; Piece: 32537; Schedule Number: 21; .

David Davies 36 Llangynider, Glamorgan Head M Watchmaker Both
Mary Davies 29 Metheringham, Lincolnshire Wife M E
Cyril Davies 4 Maesteg, Glamorgan Son E
Raudal Davies 1 Maesteg, Glamorgan Son -
Diava [Diana] Cockrall 18 Maesteg, Glamorgan Servant S Domestic Servant (General) Both
[Correction (Diava --> Diana) subm'd to Ancestry]


1911 Wales Census
Civil parish: Cwmdu
County/Island: Glamorgan
Street Address: 17 Golden Terrace Maesteg
Registration district: Bridgend
Registration District Number: 591
Sub-registration district: Maesteg
ED, institution, or vessel: 08
Source Citation: Class: RG14; Piece: 32533; Schedule Number: 155; .

Ada Cockerell 45 Fishguard, Pembrokeshire, Wales Head W Housewife
Jane Cockerell 22 Fishguard, Pembrokeshire, Wales Daughter S Assisting In House
John Gulliver Cockerell 21 Fishguard, Pembrokeshire, Wales Son S Gas Stoker
Elizabeth Cockerell 13 Maesteg, Glamorgan, Wales Daughter At School
Mary Ann Cockerell 8 Maesteg, Glamorgan, Wales Daughter At School
Thomas Henry Cockerell 6 Maesteg, Glamorgan, Wales Son At School
Mary Ada Cockerell 3/12 Maesteg, Glamorgan, Wales GrandDaughter
[Ada Years Married: 21; 9 live births; 6 still living - all crossed out]
[Jane Years Married: --; 1 live births; 1 still living - all crossed out]


1901 Wales Census
County:Glamorganshire
Parish:CWMDU
Street:30 ROCK STREET
Town:MAESTEG
Ecclesiastical District:LLANGYNWYD
Municipal Ward:WEST
Parliamentary Borough:MID GLAMORGAN
Registration District:BRIDGEND
Sub District:MAESTEG
Enumeration District:9
Archive Reference:RG13 Piece Number:5041 Folio:82 Page:7

HARRY COCKERELL 1866 35 Hinbridge, Somerset Head M Stoker at Coliery (above ground) E
ADA COCKERELL 1866 35 Fishguard, Pembrokeshire Wife M Both
JANE COCKERELL 1889 12 Fishguard, Pembrokeshire Daughter E
JOHN G COCKERELL 1890 11 Fishguard, Pembrokeshire Son Both
DINAH COCKERELL 1894 7 Maesteg, Glamorgan Daughter E
ELIZABETH COCKERELL 1898 3 Maesteg, Glamorgan Daughter E
GERTRUDE A COCKERELL 1901 0[6m] Maesteg, Glamorgan Daughter E


In 1891 (RG12/4450/41/4), Harry (stoker), Adah, Jane & John are lodging with another stoker, Charles and Esther Small @ 50 Bethania St.

Here's some modern pics of Maesteg: http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/SS8591
On the inset map, the blue grid lines are 1km apart. SS8591 refers to the central grid square.
There's a red road enters the sq from the S. It's Bethania St, but as it enters the sq it becomes Commercial. # 21 is abt where the bar of the Circle Bar Ranch symbol touches Commercial (well, it is the wild west, I suppose).
Also, as it enters the sq there's a yellow road (Bridge St) heading N across the creek. The first turn to the left (West) after the creek is Golden Terrace.
Don't know where Rock St is, but the other 3 addy's are all within a km of each other.



Marriages Mar 1888 (>99%)
Cockerell Henry Haverfordwest 11a 1126
JAMES Thomas Haverfordwest 11a 1126
Lewis Ada Haverfordwest 11a 1126
MORGANS Hannah Haverfordwest 11a 1126

Thank you Mgnv that makes sense she did get married in 1918. I now need to find out some information on his adoptive parents.

I would never have learned all this information if it wasn't for all your help.

Thanks all Gloria ;-)

Fixed typo above - now reads:
As I read it, the workhouse had 155 regular inmates, plus 23 tramps, plus 75 people in the infirmary for a total of 253 (image 765 of 784)
[Plus 11 staff onsite - incl Thomas & Martha Davies image 773]

So 30% of non-staff at workhouse were actually patients in the infirmary.
Probably the case for your lass - she went in to have the child, gave it up for adoption, and left on discharge from the infirmary - as she wasn't keeping the child, the b.rego was handled by the Workhouse superintendent.

ED=Enumeration District.
This was usually what one enumerator handled - for institutions and vessels in port, the enumeration was handled by the person in charge - workhouse superintendent, ship's captain etc.

Yes Kathleen its her. I think your right she went to the infirmary to give birth out of the way, the birth was registered two days later maybe the adoptive parents had him from birth. must send email to Cardiff records office see if there is any records of Bridgend workhouse kept. thank you all so much for all your help.


Gloria x.

Could this be Dinah's marriage? :-


Name: COCKERELL, Dinah
Registration district: Bridgend
County: Glamorganshire
Year of registration: 1918
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's last name: Thomas
Volume no: 11A
Page no: 1455

Name: THOMAS, George
Registration district: Bridgend
County: Glamorganshire
Year of registration: 1918
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's last name: Cockerell
Volume no: 11A
Page no: 1455

Kath. x

Just off to flick my duster around will check in later.

Gloria .

WOW thank you John thats very interesting.


Gloria

Thank you Kathleen. I can find his mother on the 1901 Census, but can't find her on the 1911 Census. Prior to address given at time of birth was 37, Ewenny Rd Maesteg she was a general servant, I have checked that address and there was a Father who was a widower at the time, occupation stone mason and his family living there son was around 30 and daughter 16 years of age, no Dinah Cockerell living there she may have joined the family after the Census were taken. She gave birth the following April at 1a Quarella Road. would love to find her on the 1911 Census if this address was a work house do you think she might have been a servant there.Thank you .

Gloria.

Kath

I have often been caught out by that. Bridgend was probably the local workhouse infirmary for Maesteg, as it is not too far a drive down the hill on a chara or a pony and trap.

Workhouses often had an infirmary where people were treated if they had no spare money. Many died in the workhouse infirmary, but it would have been similar today to someone dying in a nursing home. Many are still funding their nursing (though at £650 per week that cannot continue for ever). So many of them have no money left eventually and receive their latter nursing from state funds in effect.

And there was a huge social problem giving birth to illeg child in Maesteg, even if your mum was there to help (very chapel area, not long after 1904 religious revival). Probably sent to Bridgend before she "showed". Possibly parents sorted something out with outdoor relief officer for Maesteg