Genealogy Chat

Thank you for the information

Illegitimate children often "made up" a father's name and said he was deceased on their marriage certificates just to save face in front of the new in-laws. If you don't find a step-father with the name Timothy then this could be the case.

By the way, Hartlepool is in Co. Durham and not Yorkshire - even if Yorkshire is on the birth index.

Kath. x

This could possibly be a step-father. His name was Timothy, but not Spencer. (there was no need to stipulate this on a marriage certificate). Or possibly not - this is a very confusing family.

Do you have the death certificate for Catherine? This could be worth getting as it should say "widow of ....... " Also, knowing who the informant was may help.

:-S :-S

The marriage records gave a Timothy Spencer Deseased as Rebecca Spencer's father,
He is not listed on her birth cert.

Why would this be?

Cannot find a marriage for Timothy and Elizabeth?

No joy on the census records or baptism records for the local churches.

Thanks for that, I'm off to the records office tomorrow as its not far from where we live. I will have a look at the census for 1881 and 1891 to see if they appear anywhere else. I will also check the baptism records for st Matthews church as that the nearest church and may give details of Rebecca's baptism.

Rebecca is very important to me, not just being my great great grandmother but my mum called me Rebecca not knowing this was her name . I too was born on 1st of January, some 105 years after Rebecca Spencer.

There is no No.2 E.Court, Britannia Street on the 1881 census. These are the families at Nos.1 & 3:

Name: Jacob Chamberlain
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Epherim Chamberlain
Mother's Name: Ann Chamberlain
Gender: Male
Where born: Leicestershire, England

Civil parish: Leicester St Margaret
County/Island: Leicestershire
Country: England

Street Address: Britannia St Court E
Education:

Employment status:
View image

Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Leicester
Sub-registration district: East Leicester
ED, institution, or vessel: 91
Neighbors: View others on page

Piece: 3169
Folio: 45
Page Number: 22
Household Members: Name Age
Epherim Chamberlain
36
Ann Chamberlain
36
Jacob Chamberlain
8
Mary Chamberlain
7
George Chamberlain
4
Amos Chamberlain
2
Eliza Chamberlain

George Davis
31
Jane Davis
32

Rebecca was born at number 32 Britannia street Leicester on 1/1/1884
In1891 she lived at 2 Britannia street Leicester with her grandmother

Just wondered who lived at No 32 in 1881

Piece: 2989
Folio: 134
Page: 33

(adding above (FMP1901) reference on Ancestry, brings Thomas Danne)


1881 (for area, doesn't seem numbered!)

LANG, Mary Head Widow F 62 1819 Lace Work
Leicester, Leicestershire
LANG, William Son Single M 32 1849 Boatman
Leicester, Leicestershire
LANG, Laban Son Single M 21 1860 Shoe Finisher
Leicester, Leicestershire
Piece: 3169
Folio: 46
Page: 23
Registration District: Leicester
Civil Parish: Leicester St Margaret
Municipal Borough:
Address: Britannia St Court E, Leicester St Margaret
County: Leicestershire

Chris :)

You can look for a census via an address on findmypast.

But I haven't been able to find Britannia Street through them on either the 1881 or 1871 censuses.

Living at 2, E.Court, Britannia Street on the 1901 census is:

Thomas Dann - head - single - Leicester
Elizabeth Shipman - boarder - single - 42 - Leicester
Elizabeth Shipman - boarder - 7 - Leicester
Ernest Shipman - boarder - 1 mon. - Leicester

I can't find this 1901 census on Ancestry.

Hello Rebecca, what is the house number?

I have received Rebecca Spencer's birth cert today. Theres no father listed but in the mothers column it's Elizabeth spencer at the top and another word at the bottom. I looks like Winder or something similar. I have also ordered her marriage cert today.
From the census of 1891 she lived in Britannia st Leicester , she was also born in the same street. Is there anyway of looking at the census for 1881 by street to see who was living in the house when it was taken as this may give relatives.

Haven't got the marriage cert for Rebecca but I will get one.

I have traced the parish for Catherine but couldn't read the census. But thankyou for the lead.

I think Catherine moved round a lot as two of her kids were born in Yorkshire, one in Hartlepool the other in goole. These births I still haven't traced I was given a lead of a possible marriage for Catherine in 1867 but can't say for sure.

This is so frustrating as I have traced family back several generation for my great grandfather Harry Neal who married Rebecca. Found graves and long lost relatives but the spencer are giving me the run around :-S

Did Rebecca have no father on her marriage certificate, or did she name a possible step-father?

As Catherine is so specific on the 1891 census that she comes from Pickford Brook, I'm assuming that she really did come from there.

I don't know the area at all, but from the maps it looks as though the nearest church is at Allesley, Warwickshire.

The only Catherine baptised at Allesley, around that time, on familysearch, is Catherine Thacker/Holmes in 1845. Mother Elizabeth Thacker. I can see this Catherine on the 1851 and 1861 censuses, but not after that. I can't connect her to the name Spencer.

Back to the drawing board. :-|

I can't find Rambling Rose's Catherine Malton either.

I looked for a Malton to Catherine marriage , but no sign.

Until 1875, there were no penalties for not registering births

Try looking for baptisms.

To determine whether Caroline had been married before, purchase the 1867 marriage cert for full details.

Alternatively, search on freebmd for a marriage between a Mmalton and a Catherine.

Thanks for the above info.

Having a look into the possible marriage of Catherine. There isn't a birth for a Catherine Malton around 1843 anywhere. Could she have been married before.

Can't belivev this line of my family is proving so difficult.

Still can't trace a birth for Elizabeth
John spencer born 1871 hartlepool yorks
Jane spencer born 1874 google yorks.

I'm thinking that Elizabeth was born before her mum married and therefore has a different name a birth but used Spencer after the marriage.

Any help would be appreciated.

1911 Census Household RecordHousehold information
Address High Street Melbourne
Parish Melbourne
Town Melbourne
Type of Building Barber's Shop
Number of Rooms 6 Rooms
Inhabited Y
Reference RG14PN20808 RG78PN1242 RD434 SD2 ED3 SN206
Administrative County Derbyshire
Registration District Shardlow
Registration Sub District Melbourne
Enumeration District 3

Householder 1
Name Harry Neal
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Gender M
Age 28
Estimated Year of Birth 1883
Occupation Hairdresser
Employed Y
Working at Home Y
Industry Hairdressing
Place of Birth Delgrave Leicester

Householder 2
Name Rebecca Neal
Relationship to Head of Household Wife
Total Children Born Alive 3
Children Still Living 3
Children Who Have Died 0
Gender F
Age 28
Estimated Year of Birth 1883
Occupation Shoe Fitter
Employed Y
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Leicester

Householder 3
Name Henry Neal
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Gender M
Age 8
Estimated Year of Birth 1903
Occupation School
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Leicester

Householder 4
Name Phyllis May Neal
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Gender F
Age 5
Estimated Year of Birth 1906
Occupation School
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Melbourne Derbys

Householder 5
Name Stanley Neal
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Gender M
Age 2
Estimated Year of Birth 1909
Occupation Juvenile
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Melbourne Derbys

Householder 6
Name Mary Jane Smith
Relationship to Head of Household Mother
Condition / Years Married Married
Gender F
Age 48
Estimated Year of Birth 1863
Occupation Linker Of Stocking
Employed Y
Working at Home Y
Industry Hosiery
Place of Birth Tamworth Staffs

Householder 7
Name George Neal
Relationship to Head of Household Brother
Condition / Years Married Single
Gender M
Age 22
Estimated Year of Birth 1889
Occupation Labourer Hewer At
Employed Y
Working at Home N
Industry Stone Quarry
Place of Birth Belgrave Leicester

Householder 8
Name Adaliza Neal
Relationship to Head of Household Sister
Condition / Years Married Single
Gender F
Age 15
Estimated Year of Birth 1896
Occupation Shoe Machineist
Employed Y
Working at Home N
Industry Shoe Trade
Place of Birth Belgrave Leicester

I think this MAY be Catherine's marriage (going by her place of birth on the 1891 census and the fact that she has a son called John):-


Name: MALTON, Catherine
Registration district: West Bromwich
County: Staffordshire
Year of registration: 1867
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume no: 6B
Page no: 846

MarriageFinder: Catherine Malton married one of the following people:

LUNE, William
SPENCER, John<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
WRIGHT, Anne

Kath. x

Possible marriages for Elizabeth after Rebecca's birth:-



Name: SPENCER, Elizabeth
Registration district: Leicester
County: Leicestershire
Year of registration: 1884
Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume no: 7A
Page no: 415

MarriageFinder: Elizabeth Spencer married one of the following people:

ACHURCH, William
SMART, William Samuel
HIGGINS, Mary

OR:-

Name: SPENCER, Elizabeth
Registration district: Leicester
County: Leicestershire
Year of registration: 1886
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume no: 7A
Page no: 484

MarriageFinder: Elizabeth Spencer married one of the following people:

BRIARS, John
CHATFIELD, Harry
PAYNE, Hannah

OR:-


Name: SPENCER, Elizabeth
Registration district: Leicester
County: Leicestershire
Year of registration: 1890
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume no: 7A
Page no: 520

MarriageFinder: Elizabeth Spencer married one of the following people:

ELLIOTT, Edward
HARDY, Charles
DOWSING, Angelina Frances

Kath. x

For ref,

1891 England Census
about Catherine Spencer Name: Catherine Spencer
Age: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Fighford Brook, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: St Margaret
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
County/Island: Leicestershire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Leicester
Sub-registration district: East Leicester
ED, institution, or vessel: 63
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2532
Folio: 34
Page Number: 18
Household Members: Name Age
Catherine Spencer 48
John Spencer 20
Jane Spencer 17
Rebecca Spencer 7