Genealogy Chat

Hello Gareth, seeing as it's a few months since anything happened on the thread Sarah mightn't realise there are further replies.

If you click on her name you can make direct contact with her through the Genes message system.

Hello All
I am researching Joseph and this family for a friend whose grandfather was Joseph Lincoln Hollins, he was a freemason in Burselm. I dont know anyhting about the USA link, I have linked him to 3 Josephs as father, grandfather, gt grandfather and Charles above him, Charles Hollins may be in Stafford gaol in 1841, his wife Sarah on her own with children?
All addresses in every census aroun St Pauls area of Burslem and back sytch.
William Garfield Hollins is JL Hollins brother and appears in Derby 1911.
Sarah are you related to Teresa Beck of Dunfries?
regards Gareth

Wonder if he'd made an earlier trip?

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
Name: Jos Hollins
Arrival Date: 30 Nov 1863
Birth Year: abt 1841
Age: 22
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: English
Place of Origin: England
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England and Queenstown, Ireland
Port of Arrival: New York
Port Arrival State: New York
Port Arrival Country: United States
Ship Name: Louisiana

Got to go out now but will happily do a bit more digging later.

Sarah - check your inbox, I've sent you a newspaper cutting.

There is this 1869 US arrival:

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
Name: Joseph Hollins
Arrival Date: 23 Jun 1869
Birth Year: abt 1840
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: English
Place of Origin: England
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Destination: United States of America
Port of Arrival: New York
Port Arrival State: New York
Port Arrival Country: United States
Ship Name: China

His occupation is given as "laborer" - but so were all other adult males on the voyage, I wonder if they just meant a labourer as someone who worked?

What is interesting is that he is travelling with a William Hollins age 31 which fits as his brother from 1861 census.

sorry just caught up with what you've written. So they were wrong about Mary but he was married to Eliz. Could be Eliza.I'll order a marriage cert asap. Thanks for that. Thats amazing. I just wished I knew what he was doing out there (been told to help establish Pottersville). Joseph and Charlottes first child Joseph Lincoln was born in 1880 so Joseph didn't stay long. I wonder where Eliza died? Thankyou so much.

Something to think about:

Deaths Sep 1869
Hollins Eliza 27 Wolstanton 6b 81

I found a marriage of Joseph Hollins to Mary Ann Cook but when I lookes for a death of Mary Ann Hollins it was there in 1871 but it said aged 7. I can't find a birth of Mary Ann Hollins or Cook for 7 years previous.

There is this 1862 marriage which MIGHT be your Joseph:

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1862
Daniels Nehemiah Farmer Wolstanton 6b 181
Hawkins Eliza Wolstanton 6b 181
Hollins Joseph Wolstanton 6b 181
Malpass Jane Lovatt Wolstanton 6b 181

EDIT: I have found Nehemia Daniels on the 1881 census with wife Jane, so Joseph Hollins married Eliza Hawkins.

The shipping record I posted didn't say Elizabeth, it just said "Eliz"

EDIT:

From Staffs BMD http://www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk

Staffordshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1862
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
HOLLINS Joseph HAWKINS Eliza Civil Marriage (Wolstanton) Stoke-On-Trent WRO/06/058

This is the 1881 for the Joseph Hollins who married Mary Ann Cook - you can see by his occupation that he is not your Joseph. Also, we already have your Joseph with Charlotte on the 1881:

HOLLINS, Joseph Head Married M 37 1844 Engine Fitter Burslem, Staffordshire
HOLLINS, Mary A Wife Married F 38 1843 Burslem, Staffordshire
HOLLINS, Mary H Daughter Single F 13 1868 Scholar Burslem, Staffordshire
HOLLINS, Jane Daughter Single F 11 1870 Scholar Burslem, Staffordshire
HOLLINS, Joseph H Son Single M 8 1873 Scholar Burslem, Staffordshire
HOLLINS, Sarah A Daughter Single F 6 1875 Scholar Burslem, Staffordshire
HOLLINS, Robert Son Single M 3 1878 Burslem, Staffordshire

Piece: 2715 Folio: 62 Page: 21
Registration District: Wolstanton
Civil Parish: Burslem

Address: 33, Edward St, Burslem County: Staffordshire

Now, the marriage to Mary Ann Cook gives father's name as Benjamin, whereas the 1871 shows father's name as Charles. My hunch is that the marriage to Mary Ann Cook may be the other Joseph Hollins who was born c1844.

The only way to be absolutely sure is to buy a copy of the marriage certificate to Charlotte as you know that to be a correct marriage. That will give Joseph's father's name and occupation and enable you to trace the correct line back with confidence and also prove or disprove the US link.

The 1871 I posted showed Joseph with his mother Sarah, this is that family in 1861:

HOLLINS, Charles Head Married M 49 1812 Potter Tunstall, Staffordshire
HOLLINS, Sarah Wife Married F 47 1814 Burslem, Staffordshire
HOLLINS, William Son Unmarried M 22 1839 Potter Burslem, Staffordshire
HOLLINS, Joseph Son Unmarried M 20 1841 Potter Burslem, Staffordshire
HOLLINS, Martha Daughter F 13 1848 Scholar Burslem, Staffordshire
HOLLINS, Sarah Daughter F 10 1851 Scholar Burslem, Staffordshire
HOLLINS, Charles Son M 9 1852 Scholar Burslem, Staffordshire
HOLLINS, Hannah Daughter F 3 1858 Burslem, Staffordshire

Piece: 1928 Folio: 18 Page: 29
Registration District: Wolstanton
Civil Parish: Burslem

Address: 116, Back Sytch, Burslem County: Staffordshire

Sarah, a word of caution - take other members research with a pinch of salt unless they've bought certificates or found parish records to prove their assumptions!

This will be the 1865 marriage referred to:

England, Marriages, 1538–1973

groom's name: Joseph Hollins
groom's birth date:
groom's birthplace:
groom's age:
bride's name: Mary Ann Cook
bride's birth date:
bride's birthplace:
bride's age:
marriage date: 1865
marriage place: Wolstanton, Stafford, England
groom's father's name: Benjamin Hollins
groom's mother's name:
bride's father's name: Edward Cook
bride's mother's name:
groom's race:
groom's marital status:
groom's previous wife's name:
bride's race:
bride's marital status:
bride's previous husband's name:
indexing project (batch) number: M01003-5
system origin: England-VR
source film number: 1517618
reference number: 2:26PX5HG

Source Citation
FamilySearch https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NXPR-GSW

Just found an email from a member in 2006 who said that he thought Joseph was married to a Mary Ann Cook in 1865. So that wouldn't match with the passenger listing posted above as his wife is stated as Elizabeth.

Thanks for all your help. I had been told that he might've been married before Charlotte Brindley but had found only a marriage between a Joseph Hollins and Mary?. My father had not heard this story about his grandad but we were unsure. The story we were told was that while in America his wife back home fell ill and died before his return. We have two family portraits but they are of Joseph and Charlotte. Thats why I'm struggling to say whether or not it my Joseph. On the other hand his children were named after American presidents, thats why I'm trying to find out for definate. I found that really interesting where he is classed as a widow at age 30 and the records you've found of him marrying at 31. That is definately them marrying and the census record from when he's 30.

Possibly the first marriage:

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1862
Daniels Nehemiah Farmer Wolstanton 6b 181
Hawkins Eliza Wolstanton 6b 181 ??
Hollins Joseph Wolstanton 6b 181 <<<
Malpass Jane Lovatt Wolstanton 6b 181

(The 1871 census suggests Nehemia Daniels married Jane Malpass)

Further details on the 1872 marriage that Gwyn posted:

England, Marriages, 1538–1973

groom's name: Joseph Hollins
groom's birth date: 1841
groom's birthplace:
groom's age: 31
bride's name: Charlotte Brindley
bride's birth date: 1847
bride's birthplace:
bride's age: 25
marriage date: 27 May 1872
marriage place: Burslem, Stafford, England
groom's father's name: Charles Hollins
groom's mother's name:
bride's father's name: Joseph Brindley
bride's mother's name:
groom's race:
groom's marital status:
groom's previous wife's name:
bride's race:
bride's marital status:
bride's previous husband's name:
indexing project (batch) number: I03177-1
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1040832
reference number: 191

Source Citation
"England, Marriages, 1538–1973 ," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N6HS-15S : accessed 02 Aug 2012), Joseph Hollins and Charlotte Brindley, 27 May 1872; citing reference 191, FHL microfilm 1040832.

I had sent Sarah a pm asking her to check if the info found tallied with her records. Reply

"Hi. I don't know if the information about going to America is right or wrong. I don't know what to look at as there was more than one Joseph Hollins at that time in the area. I don't know how to check that. I do know he had a potbank in hanley stoke on Trent. Thanks"

Have asked for feedback on here as we can then try to help make the link.

Sarah - who was your great-grandfather married to?

??????
Marriages Jun 1872

Brindley Charlotte ..Wolstanton 6b 132
Brudley Charlotte ..Wolstanton 6b 132
HOLLINS Joseph .. Wolstanton 6b 132 <<<<<<<<
Mountford Thirza Wolstanton 6b 132
Wooliscroft Jacob Wolstanton 6b 132

This is the Joseph from the 1891 census and death, in 1871:

HOLLINS, Sarah Head F 57 1814 Staffordshire
HOLLINS, Joseph Son M 30 1841 Staffordshire < Potter presser, a widower
HOLLINS, Charles Son M 19 1852 Staffordshire
HOLLINS, Hannah Daughter F 13 1858 Staffordshire

Piece: 2851 Folio: 33 Page: 8
Registration District: Wolstanton
Civil Parish: Burslem

Address: Back Sytch, Burslem County: Staffordshire

Perhaps that is the correct US arrival and Eliz was a first wife that died?