Genealogy Chat

Apologies if anyone has already put this.
Several trees on Ancestry have John (middle name Parkinson?) Robson who married Eleanor Hall and died 1865. They have the parents Allan is proposing, but no evidence of a birth or baptism, so treat with caution - they might just have copied from each other!
Jan

Sorry to butt in - as I haven't checked back for a bit it's a bit tricky to tune in, and I might be getting things all wrong.
Can I just re-cap? Your John had father John Robson a joiner. Is that the solid fact you have?

Just wondering if you considered this one:


1851 England Census

Name: John Robson
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Robson
Mother's name: Alice Robson
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: South Shields, Durham, England

Civil parish: Southwick
Ecclesiastical parish: Southwick
County/Island: Durham

Registration district: Sunderland
Sub-registration district: Monk

John Robson 35 joiner
Alice Robson 35
William Robson 13
John Robson 11
Jane Ann Robson 8
Alice Robson 5
James Robson 2

I'm not sure you have the correct family. An enginewright is a skilled occupation. Doesn't make sense to be a joiner/carpenter and then become an enginewright.

Rose

pm from Allan

"The 1838 Sunderland John Robson is not mine his parents were John Robson a Bottlemaker and Jane Calvert.

when my John got married in 1860 he said on his marriage Cert his father was John Robson a Joiner by trade, the witnesess were not realtives they were people who lived in the block of houses as him.

also Douglas is a family name, it came from Jane Douglas who was the grandmother of John Born 1840, it is also my late fathers name, my grandfather and great grandfather, my middle name is Douglas it all fits"

1851 occ = enginewright (joiner???)

Hi Vera - Allan has said in the summary above that he has the certificate so presumably the informant on it was Eleanor and his occupation was a seaman (correct Allan????)

What I have been trying to find out by an exchange of PM's is the proof of John's yob and parentage.

this is the latest PM i have sent

"From the info you have given John could have been born 1837 or 1838 or 1839 or 1840 - the age seems to vary on every document.

How do you KNOW he was born in 1840 and that his parents were John & Eleanor.

For anyone to help you further we need that information"

In 1861 he states born in Bishopswearmouth not Sunderland

who and what was John's father on his marriage certificate?

who were the witnesses?

Allan

Not sure if you will answer this or have gone to that other site but just trying to
make sure we have the correct John.

You say John married Eleanor Ann Hall and you have them together in the 1861 census with Douglas then aged 4 months.

John then dies as a result of an accident in 1865.

On the 1871 census Eleanor a widow is with Douglas and other children, one of whom William is aged 1 year.

Are you sure that is your John who died in 1865?. Have you seen the cert.
There is another death in Durham for a John b about 1841 who died in 1871.

Eleanor then re-married in 1874.

Vera

Apart from this thread and the other two you started yesterday...I found 5 or 6 other threads all asking the same thing over the last 5 years

If no one on this site or any of the other sites you have posted this can find anything....probably means there is nothing to be found.

My gt gt grandmother was not registered but her elder and younger siblings were.....It happened, their lives were different to ours maybe they just forgot??

Can you list the details from his marriage to Eleanor Hall? Father's name, occupation, witnesses, address, etc.

Rose

Why have you now reposted on Find ancestors?

Allan - this is probably a silly question after all the research you seem to have done but...

how confident are you that you have the right parents for John? In the 1861 census he states born Bishopswearmouth (I know it is the same reg district as Sunderland) with an age consistent with marriage cert, ie born 1837 (before civil registration?) whereas the 1851 states Sunderland and 1841 would only show 'born in county' not place

Summary from duplicate thread:

John Robson was born 1840 where, I dont know his birth is not registered with who I think his parents are as follows:

1841 Census Pemberton St, Hetton-le-Hole co Durham
Eleanor Robson age 30
Robert age 13 Born Newcastle
Mary Ann age 9 born Norton, Co Durham
Elizabeth age 8 born Norton Co Duham
Douglas age 5 born Newcastle
John age 1

I have all the above Baptisms except John.

in Oct 1841 Margaret Robson was born I have birth cert her parents were John Robson a Joiner by Trade & Eleanor Urwin these were married in Nov 1826 at Lamesley.

1843 Birth of Armstrong Urwin Robson at Hetton I have birth cert
1846 birth of Richard Errington Robson he died 3 months old
both Armstrong & Richard were baptised together on 8th July 1846 at St Nicholas Hetton.

1851 Census 20 Neasham Sq Sunderland
John Robson age 46 Enginewright Born Corbridge
Eleanor age 41 born Byker
John age 11 born Sunderland
Margaret age 10 born Sunderland ( she was born Hetton) I have birth cert.
Armstrong age 8 born Hetton
Thomas age 3 Months born Sunderland.

1861 Census 20 Sussex St Bishopwearmouth
John Robson age 23 born Bishopwearmouth, Seaman
Eleanor age 27 born Sunderland
Douglas age 4 Months

John Robson age 22 Married Eleanor Ann Hall 15th Jan 1860 at Sunderland he gave his age as 22 I think he was 20 ish he wfie was 9 years older so they both Doctored there age

John Robson died 31st May 1865 as a Result of an Accident
his death cert said he 26, Parish records say 25.

Johns birth is not Registered I have had all the John Robson birth Regs checked from 1837 to 1841 which cost me a fortune, and he is not there with parents John Robson and Eleanor Urwin.
I have checked Baptisms for Hetton, Houghton, Sunderland, Newcastle and surrounding area's but no joy, also I cant find his sister Margarets Baptism which suggests to me they were baptised somewhere together.

maybe someone has parish records I have missed but I am baffled as to why John Robson my direct line appears to be neither Registered or Baptised.

John lived till he was 25 he died in 1865 as a result of an Accident, he is my direct line.

Thanks
Allan

possible?

Births Mar 1839 (>99%)
Robson Male Sunderland 24 263

I know it is a bit early but if he was born in March his age was just written wrong. What was it given as in 1841?

edit

on the other hand that could be this one

Deaths Mar 1839 (>99%)
ROBSON Male Sunderland 24 168

Do you have exact birth dates for the children born either side of him?

Do the other males have surnames as middle names?

Rose

I suppose this might be him - Auckland covers an area called Witton le Wear

Births Jun 1839 (>99%)
Robson Male Auckland 24 8

But what is the surname?!

Jan

Is the surname Robson, because you haven't said?

Rose

Is this the family in 1851?

ROBSON, John Head Married M 46 1805 Engine Wright Corbridge, Durham
ROBSON, Elenor Wife Married F 41 1810 Engine Wright Wife Biker, Northumberland (would be Byker)
ROBSON, John Son M 11 1840 At School Sunderland, Durham
ROBSON, Margret Daughter F 10 1841 At School Sunderland, Durham
ROBSON, Armstrong Son M 8 1843 At School Witton, Durham
ROBSON, Thomas Son M 0 (2 MOS) 1851 ?ndon, Durham

Piece: 2397 Folio: 119 Page: 29
Registration District: Sunderland
Civil Parish: Sunderland
Municipal Borough: Sunderland

Address: 20, Nesham Square, Sunderland County: Durham

the first 2 children 1827 & 1829 were baptised in Newcastle, the next 2 were baptised in Norton Co Durham,1831 & 1833.the back to newcastle 1835 after that i have the family in Hetton-Le-Hole on the 1841 Census were John is aged 1, the family had Margaret 1841, Armstrong 1843 & Richard 1846 i have the birth regs of all except John

Thanks
Allan

Have you accounted for other children with the correct surname born at the right time and area?
I have some who were baptised with a forename which was not their registered name.

Gwyn

Some children aren't named at the time of registration and just appear in the index as male or female as their first name, but with the right surname of course

Were the childreen born after him baptised at the same church as those born before?