Genealogy Chat

Thanks for you help Jonesey, very enlightening, will re go over all info and re contact my cousin, re pick the brain of my aunt. Good idea to check out the marriage certificate. Certainly lots to think about and check out., but will keep going x

Getting back to Richard Thomas Evans there are a couple of possibilities in 1861/71 if he was indeed born in Sedgley. Rather than speculate however it might be wiser to obtain a copy of his 1877 marriage certificate to see who he named as his father as this might help positively identify Richard Thomas in earlier census records.

With regard to the information provided by Austin Evans's grandson. I would suggest that you contact him again and ask how he arrived at who was the father of Ronald Neville Evans, what proof does he have of that, similarly what proof does he have that the father was born in Wales and that he died in 1910. Does he have any certificates for these events?

With regard to the story that your oldest aunt told you about looking after her younger siblings whilst her mother visited her father in hospital. Your grandparents had 6 children between 1926 and 1938 including twins, one of whom died shortly after birth in 1926. Amongst the children there was only one boy. It is perfectly possible that your aunt did look after her younger siblings whilst her mother visited her father as she states but I think it most likely that she did not look after her brother until after their father had died unless of course her father died after 5/11/1938. The actual date of your maternal grandfathers death obtained from his death certificate should indicate whether he died before or after his son was born.

The females in your family certainly appear to have a good supply of longevity genes as I see that your grandmother Florence also lived to 90.

In case you don't have it:

1911:
LEATH, John Head Married M 41 1870 Caretaker Sewage Farm Paintry Bridgnorth Salop VIEW
LEATH, Agnes Wife Married
14 years F 33 1878 Kenly Wenlock Salop VIEW
LEATH, Agnes Daughter F 13 1898 Parkvillage Nr Hampton Staff VIEW
LEATH, Florance Daughter F 11 1900 Pottingham Staff VIEW
LEATH, Johan Son M 9 1902 Pottingham Staff VIEW
LEATH, Albert Son M 7 1904 Tettenhall Staff VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
16983 Reference:
RG14PN16983 RG78PN1048 RD369 SD1 ED7 SN21

Registration District:
Wolverhampton Sub District:
Tettenhall Enumeration District:
7 Parish:
Wrottesley

Address:
Sewerage Farm Blackbrook Pottingham Wolverhampton Staffordshire


Finally, for now at least, back in 1938 there was no way that a man who died in 1937 could father a child born in November 1939. (Nowadays of course that is possible thanks to freezing and AI or IVF). It looks as though you may have unwittingly stumbled upon a skeleton in the family closet. Don't worry, if you have, there are not many of us who have not discovered similar. ;-)

Unknown,

First things first. Based upon what you have now stated were your uncles full names there is now no doubt that his was the birth registered in 1938. You can see this for yourself by looking at the entry in the birth index for the December Quarter 1938 at www.freebmd.org.uk

Agnes Neville married Richard Thomas Evans in 1877:

Marriages Mar 1877
Evans Richard Thomas Lichfield 6b 503
NEVILLE Agnes Lichfield 6b 503

1881: (Note what Richard Thomas gave as his birthplace)
Name: Thomas Evans
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Agnes Evans
Gender: Male
Where born: Sedgley, Staffordshire, England
Civil parish: Streethay
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street Address: 10 Brewery Row
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Groom ...
Registration district: Lichfield
Sub-registration district: Lichfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 31
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2776
Folio: 60
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Evans 27
Agnes Evans 24
John R. Evans 3
Emily S. Evans

I think that you will find that this is Richard Thomas's death registration:

Deaths Sep 1886
Evans Richard Thomas 31 Lichfield 6b 241

Births Sep 1886
Evans Austin Philip Lichfield 6b 460

1891:
Name: Agnes Evans
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Whittington, Staffordshire, England
Civil parish: St Michael
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael
Town: Streethay
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: Widow

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Lichfield
Sub-registration district: Lichfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 31
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2214
Folio: 126
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
Agnes Evans 33
John R Evans 13
Mary H Evans 11
Emily J Evans 10
Thomas E Evans 8
Austin P Evans 4
Amy G Evans 1/12

Agnes is shown as a widow and she and the family are at the same address as in 1881.

Agnes lived to a ripe old age:

Name: Agnes Evans
Birth Date: abt 1857
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1958
Age at Death: 101
Registration district: Lichfield
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 9b
Page: 255

This seems to be the Agnes Evans who is in 1891, 1901 and 1911 census as widow

1881 England Census
about Agnes Evans
Name: Agnes Evans
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Thomas Evans
Gender: Female
Where born: Whittington, Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: Streethay
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street Address: 10 Brewery Row
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Lichfield
Sub-registration district: Lichfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 31
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2776
Folio: 60
Page Number: 8
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Evans 27
Agnes Evans 24
John R. Evans 3
Emily S. Evans

Wow Jonesey my heads just blown off, the plot thickens.
You have told me something I have not been able to find out myself with regards to his war records.
I can only tell you what I have found out just before Christmas, I found a cousin who is grandson of my grandfathers brother Austin Evans, from this I have found that Ronald Neville Evans was the son of Richard Evans Born in 1857 Monmouth Gwent Wales and Died in 1910.
I am completely lost with how Agnes could be classed as a widow from 1891 Cencus.?
Name on Birth Certificate for my uncle mother is Leath, His name is Robert Lewis Henry Evans.

Who registered the birth on the cert in your possession?

Naming someone as the father doesn't prove anything, unless the father registered the birth

Unknown,

Ronald Neville Evans b1896:

Just for your records in case you do not already have it:

1911:
EVANS, Agnes Head Widow F 54 1857 Laundress Whittington Lichfield Staffs VIEW
EVANS, Austin Philip Son Single M 24 1887 Platelayer Streethay Lichfield Staffs VIEW
EVANS, Amy Gertrude Daughter Single F 20 1891 Laundress Streethaylichfield Staffs VIEW
EVANS, Ronald Neville Son S M 14 1897 Garden Boy Streethaylichfield Staffs VIEW
HARSENT, Henry Boarder Widower M 60 1851 Gardener Domestic Badingham Suffolk VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
16887 Reference:
RG14PN16887 RG78PN1044 RD367 SD1 ED29 SN87

Registration District:
Lichfield Sub District:
Lichfield Enumeration District:
29 Parish:
Whittington

Address:
The Laundry Whittington Lichfield

His WW1 military records (19 images) are on Ancestry. He enlisted on 12/2/1916. Included amongst the records is a 1916 letter from his mother to the army requesting his release in order help to support her. This appears to have been unsuccessful as he was not discharged until 30/10/1918. There does not appear to be a record of him being gassed but he did receive a gun shot wound to his left hand and subsequently was awarded an army pension of 8/3d per week.

Interestingly his mother Agnes Evans nee Neville became a widow in 1886 when her husband Richard Thomas Evans died. She is recorded as a widow in 1891, 1901 and 1911 but had at least 2 children born well after her husbands death so who was Ronald Neville Evan's father?

Unknown,

Something appears odd here.

If your uncle was born in England or Wales on 5/11/1939 then his birth should legally (6 weeks allowed) have been registered in the Oct/Nov/Dec quarter of 1939. If the certificate that you have seen names his father as Ronald Neville Evans then the birth should be in the birth index as Evans. There does not appear to be an Evans/Leath birth registered in that Quarter or indeed the following one should the birth have been registered late.

Can you please advise the maiden name of the mother on the birth certificate that you have seen.

Another oddity is the fact that if I have interpreted your post correctly, you state that the 1939 child's father died whilst the child was still a baby. If the child was born in November 1939 then the 1937 death record for Ronald N Evans cannot be that of the man named on the child's birth certificate.

Unless I have made a mistake the male person whose birth was registered in 1938, married in 1962 in the same location as your mother did some 5 years earlier.

Thanks Andy that is really helpful have noted Web Site and will give it a go.
Will let tou know how I get on. Thanks x :-D

Shirley thanks for comments but yes very shure of name all other details are correct its just hos death thats the problem, also my uncle was born in 1939 not 1938 on 5th November, this is correct as I have seen his birth certificate it also states who his parents are and Ronald Neville Evans is listed as father,. His middle name Neville was his mothers Mainden Name. Thanks for your help though x

seems the last son was born in 1938. maybe she was pregnant with him when her hubby died

Marriage?

Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Mar 1926 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Evans Ronald N Leath Wolverhampton 6b 649
Leath Florence E Evans Wolverhampton 6b 649


Andy

welll he was definitely born in 1896
Name: Ronald Neville Evans
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1896
Registration district: Lichfield
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 6b
Page: 477


are you sure of his name ?

DON'T pay £20 for a cert. Thats a ripoff!!

Use the official site

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

£9.25 each. Arrive in post about 5 days later.

Death cert might give more info.Do remember that family history is sometimes hushed up, there can be skeltons in the cupboard.

Andy

Thanks Andy
I found that one, but if he died in 1937 how was his last son born in 1939? a dilemma I know. Pretty sure he is defiantly his son as my Grandmother wasn't a naughty girl as she was too prudish for that, I thought maybe it may have been miss interpreted a 9 miss read as a 7. My oldest aunt told me she had to look after the smaller children including my uncle as a baby while my Gran spent a lot of her time at the hospital before he died ! maybe if I order the death Certificate will that give me anymore info or will I be wasting £20 a gamble I know.

Correction submitted on freebmd site

The entry on FreeBMD is different (and wrong), which is probably why yoy couldn't find it

Evans Robert N 41 Birmingham 6d 98

Andy

Here is the record

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about Ronald N Evans
Name: Ronald N Evans
Birth Date: abt 1896
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1937
Age at Death: 41
Registration district: Birmingham
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 98

Andy

Death record for Ronald Neville Evans Born Staffordshire 1896 he died when my mother was very young approx 3 yrs she was born in 1937 but has a younger brother born 1939, we know my uncle was a baby when he died. We know he was in Birmingham Hospital for a long while dying from being gassed in thew war, I'm afraid that's all I know.
Any help would I be grateful
Thanks for our help, Nice to chat with you

How sure are you that the person is dead?

If you want to put some details, perhaps someone will have a look for you.