Genealogy Chat

At the time of the censuses East Hanney was in Berkshire whereas it is now Oxfordshire.

Before you visit, check with Berkshire Records Office and Oxfordshire Records Office to find out who holds which records.

Marriage cert finally arrived today, previous one having gone astray, and i believe Bessie is Leah, Bessie names her Father as Caleb Belcher a sawyer. So problem finally solved :-D Interestingly Bessie says she was a widow.... so must now find the death cert for Alexander McKay.... Thanks everyone for your help :-)

Thanks Potty, if Bessie does turn out to be Leah my equally football mad brother will be fascinated by that :-)
Cheers :-D

Noticed on the census that Robert Menham was a professional footballer and did a bit of digging.

Did you know he had played for Everton in a Cup Final? This site has details:
http://www.swindon-town-fc.co.uk/footprint/TownThroughTime.asp

Hi, i will certainly come back with the info from the marriage cert. I cant find Alexander McKay after 1891 and i cant find a death cert either, so still a bit of a puzzle there :-S
One point of interest for me, if Bessie did marry Robert Menham, well Robert was goalkeeper and Captain of Swindon football club, as a big football supporter i rather like the idea of that :-D All i have to do now is wait for that marriage cert to arrive :-)
Once again, thanks to everyone that has helped me.

Irene, please let us know what the 1894 marriage cert shows - it does look as if the mystery has been solved.

I wonder if she lied about her age when she married Alexander McKay because she was underage and didn't have her father's permission?

I have looked for a death for him but with no luck.

That does seem to be the solution. It was a very interesting puzzle.

Leah must have told a porky about her age at her marriage. I wonder what happened to her first husband.

Thanks Kay, but i think that Leah is Bessie. Having found a marriage record for Bessie McKay in 1894 i looked for her on later census returns. In 1911 she is in Swindon with her husband Robert William, and her place of birth is West Hanney. I have now found a burial record for her in Swindon 1953, the name on the grave is Bessie Leah Menham, seems too much of a coincidence for it not to be her. I have ordered the marriage cert for Bessie McKay, if she names her Father as Caleb Belcher then i think i will accept that Leah = Bessie.
By the way Kay, that baptismal record for Elizabeth is of interest to me, i have both Butlers and Frouds in my family tree, so that may be my next investigation :-)

Lizzie was bapt in 1868 Wantage --IGI -- familysearch.org--- has the transcript..

also a bapt for Elizabeth Butler farther Caleb Butler and mother Amy Frouds,,,,Wantage.!

Thanks for that KenSE. This had seriously misled me :-(

You are right about Leah's death. I have looked at the image on freeBMD and it is definitely 81 but has been transcribed as 31. I can see why as the type is not perfect. I have sent a correction to freeBMD.

Think i may have solved this :-)
I think Bessie might be Leah Belcher.
There is a death certificate on ancestry for a Leah Belcher which gives an incorrect birth year, it says year of death 1903, year of birth 1872, however i was just looking through a CD of Berkshire burials when i came across the record for Leah Belcher buried 1903 AND her age is given as 81! This would be Leah's grandmother :-D
Checked on Find My Past and they have the correct age on their 1903 record for Leah.
Maybe Bessie was Leah's 'nickname' :-)

I have found Annie Belcher, looks like she married a William Fisher in 1889.
I think Leah died in 1903, so that leaves Kate, however i have found her on the 1891 census in London employed as a servant.
I think Emily belonged to Daniel Belcher...
I am starting to think that a short spring break in Oxfordshire might be called for, then i can take a look at the parish records for West Hanney, looks like thats my only chance of finding out whether Caleb had two daughters called Elizabeth, although if one of them was illegitimate the Father may not be named :-(
Once again, thanks for all your suggestions :-)

who did Emily Belcher belong to ? shes in Hanney a servant aged 13..

I dont see how the two marriages can be the of same person 2 weeks apart and in another county...

Lizzie = Elizabeth Belcher

Bessie = Annie or Leah or Kate


I think they are sisters and Caleb is the same person/father

finding Annie ,Leah and Kate in the birth and marriage or death records to see who's who :)

Hi Guys, i have found a marriage record for a Bessie McKay in 1894 in St George Hanover Square, husband Robert William Menham. Found this couple on both the 1901 census and on the 1911 census, in 1901 Bessie is Elizabeth and gives place of birth as Wantage, however in 1911 she is Bessie again and her birth place is listed as West Hanney Wantage Berkshire, surely too much of a coincidence? I think i will get the marriage cert for this couple to see if it is 'my' Bessie....
It certainly looks as if there were two different women though....
And thanks for the suggestion about Annie R, will try to follow that up too.
Thanks for all your suggestions :-)

1881 1881 England Census
about Caleb Belcher
Name: Caleb Belcher
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Jane Belcher
Gender: Male
Where born: West Hanney, Berkshire, England

Civil parish: East and West Hanney
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England

Street Address: Church Street
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: General Lab

Registration district: Wantage
Sub-registration district: Wantage
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1288
Folio: 72
Page Number: 13
Household Members: Name Age
Caleb Belcher 34
Jane Belcher 34
Elizabeth Belcher 13
George Belcher 11
Leah Belcher 8
Kate Belcher 6
Frederick Belcher 4
Prince Belcher 1


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Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 1288; Folio: 72; Page: 13; GSU roll: 1341313.

Source Information:

1871 census for Caleb and family 1871 England Census
about Caleb Belcher
Name: Caleb Belcher
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Jane Belcher
Gender: Male
Where born: West Hanney, Berkshire, England
Civil parish: East Hanney
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Wantage
Sub-registration district: Wantage
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Household schedule number: 149
Piece: 1268
Folio: 77
Page Number: 24
Household Members: Name Age
Caleb Belcher 23
Jane Belcher 24
Annie R Belcher 4
Lizzie Belcher 3
Alfred G Belcher 1


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Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 1268; Folio: 77; Page: 24; GSU roll: 827848.

Source Information:

Ancestry.com. 1871 England Census [database on-line]. Provo

There was another Caleb Belcher born,1849 in Portsea I Hampshire. Caleb Wright Belcher .....he died in 1885 in Burton Staffordshire..maybe Bessie belonged to him?

Yes Potty that seems to rule out Bessie Rose.

There was an elder sister in the 1971 census - Annie R (Ann Rebecca on the BMD Index). She is not with the family in 1881 (she is a servant at Cholsey) but I can't find an obvious death or marriage for her, nor can I see her in later censuses. Is it possible she took on the name of Bessie?