Genealogy Chat

Welcome to Slartibartfast’s weekly rant.

Rant No. 1

This is my new year’s resolution – stop worrying about becoming a grumpy old man and embrace it. (Who knows, I might even get a response from someone who agrees with me!)

Isn’t it time we all gave up our little empires and stopped being so possessive about our public records and started to embrace current technology for the greater good?

What I am referring to is the hundreds of family history societies up and down the country clinging onto their transcriptions like a dog with a bone, reluctant to share.

I recently went to a county records office. The round trip took me three hours and cost me money to park. Once in the records office, I was directed to a little old lady who was a volunteer from the local FHS. There was a database held on a computer that only she was allowed to use, that spewed out all I wanted know in about three minutes flat. I asked the obvious question, “could this database be put on the Internet?” To which I got the standard answer from someone who knows nothing about 21st century technology “I don’t think so dear, it’s very complicated!

My point is this, most transcripts are done by volunteers who would love to see their handy work published on the Web for all to use freely. So why isn’t it happening?

Look at the IGI, free and easy to use, FreeBMD is used by everyone including professionals, again free and easy to use. The only organisation that is trying to address the problem is FreeREG, another free and easy to use website but has vast gaps that could be easily plugged if only all the local family history societies were to donate their transcripts. Thanks to FreeBMD I doubt if anyone pays to look at the GRO indexes anymore. In time, I hope this will be the same for parish registers.

There are too many genealogy companies out there trying to make money out of us. That’s fine if they have a unique set of records but to my mind, parish registers are public documents and should be available for all to see at little or no expense.

Finally, there are people who offer look-ups. There is one lady, who will remain anonomous, that appears to have copies of nearly every parish register in the country. Put them of FreeREG so we can all have a look and not have to pester you with endless emails begging your indulgence.

Rant over.

Shall I post here?

How long will the rant remain? ;-)

The reason there is much information available on the net is that 'someone' has given their time willingly and above all- freely- There is so little that is totally free in this world.

Many of the societies who have to try and keep their financial heads above water possibly do hang onto their information, but many still don't have it all available in a format that can be downloaded as yet. I belong to one society where there is an ongoing update of parish records for free which I benefit from but when they ask for volunteers so that more work can be done I don't volunteer, so I don't complain.

I also belong to another society who could download information but don't because they have to try and keep the society going financially and selling transcriptions, which personally I prefer to study in book form, is one way of keeping the society available for people who aren't that knowledgeable about tracing family history- or even don't like a computer.

I understand where the rant is coming from but for all those volunteers who are not working fast enough to satisfy the addictive needs of the family historian all I can say is - have patience or offer to help some society so that future generations can have it all at their fingertips. -jl

Think yourself lucky that you can sit at home and view what's on the internet for free or by paying a fee. Others have had to go to County Record Offices up and down the country and search through countless microfiches for hours on end and come away no better off.

You can't research familytrees on the internet alone, you have to back it up with original documents.

BTW....the little old lady has probably done her tree without the help of internet.

I went to a FHS centre which had the same problem with secrecy!!. Unfortunatley the 'little old lady' I got didn't really know how to use computers nor which questions to ask it.
Luckily for me that society usually treks up to our local Family History event - with experts on their computer.
But I still reckon I could have got a lot more if I had been able to use their database muself.

I am not sure that Parish Records are public documents. I know most parishes are happy to donate their registers to the local Record Office, that is not always the case. Some parishes like to retain their records, I know there is one in Essex and I have seen some restrictions in the Suffolk records.

Another consideration is that by having more than one transcription available on line for a record, there is more chance of finding a correct transcription in cases where the writing is poor, or the original document is in a bad state.

Personally I would prefer more original images to be available on line.

What happened to the other thread? you did'nt return to it....I agree with Joy

Parishes are not obliged to offer their records to anyone, if they wish they can charge you to search through them. When I first started searching in about 1985 I spent a lot of time at my local LDS library, where they had microfilms of the GRO records, and their own IGI, plus films you could order. There was a map of the counties showing what percentage of parish records were on the IGI. At the time, Northumberland was 96%, lucky for me, but Somerset was 4%, so the only way to get Somerset records was to trawl round each church on foot. We were still waiting for the 1881 census records to be released.

As time went on, many Parish Record books were deposited at the local library/archives and you could search them there, usually for free, though some liked a donation.

And that's how we did it in the old days, I visited many record offices round the country, often cost me a couple of nights in a hotel, but I found stuff, and got to see and handle many of the original records.

Thank you for your replies.

JoyKM - The rant will remain for as long as its active. use it or lose it !
Blaine - Start your own rant, don't hijack mine.
Janet - I'm sorry, but the point I'm trying to make is that we SHOULD be using current technology. It's irrelevent whether people like computers or not, they are here to stay. Volunteers should donate their work to sites such as FreeREG for the greater good before giving it to their local FHS. If a society that exists solely on the good will of volunteer needs money to survive, then there is something fundamentally wrong.
MR_MAGOO - It is because people have wasted many hours of their lives in the good old days, doing everything manually that I want to change things. I too started before the advent of the Internet as a research tool. I fully agree with you that transcripts are not a primary source of information and that originals should be consulted, but the transcript will give one an idea if the query is worth persuing.
namelessone - Nice to see someone understands.
KenSE - I agree, the best case scenario would be scanned copies of the originals, but it would be difficult to do a search for a particular name.
jax - Sorry, I moved on.
grannyfranny - Exactly, that's how it was done in the old days. Nowadays we can put a man on the moon, so surely looking at what's on a computer in Suffolk isn't out of the question. (Suffolk was a county pick out at randon before anyone says anything!)

Yes you seem to move on very quickly, it is hardly worth replying

as someone who lives overseas, I DEPEND on records being on the internet.

It is impossible for those of us who have left the UK ourselves, or whose ancestors emigrated, to do anything else.



so, yes, I would love it if even more records were uploaded.



I am lucky that my brother and my cousin started tracing our main name back in the 1980s ...... and that cousin lived in the ancestral area so could visit the local churches, as well as going in person to Somerset House.

I have a copy of all the work he did ................. he took the family all the way back to 1740, tracing all branches from the original couple.


and there it has stayed!

I have re-checked as mush as possible of their work ...... and it all pans out.


There are people around the world researching this family. There was even a One Name Study Group (now removed from online) ........... and no-one has managed to take the patriarch back any further than his marriage in 1740.


He appeared from that alien spaceship.

It has been possible to take his wife and her family back to the mid-1500's.




sylvia

I so agree with Slarti, but can also understand the financial implications to the original transcribing FH groups.

What worries me more, are the parishes who refuse to hand their records over to the county Archives, or even their Diocese. On a grave hunting expedition a few years ago in deepest Kent, a Verger who started chatting proudly told me that they had retained theirs (someone has transcribed them for FS, and were charged for access). One only hopes that the record books won't be damaged or lost in years to come. From what he was saying, I got the impression that the Parish Clerk was the only person who had the key to the chest; it was unclear if it was kept in the church, or his house.

Partially prompted by my FH obsession, a friend has arranged for the records from his local church to be transcribed; unfortunately the person delegated has died and the remaining Parish council members are in a terrible mess trying to organise what has been done, to upload to the internet. This is another instance where the PR should have been given to the Archives for easy access, or to enable them to be transcribed by a group of people.

"JoyKM - The rant will remain for as long as its active. use it or lose it "

- every previous time I have posted in a thread of yours, later when I look for it in my threads, it has gone :-S ;-)

OK JoyKM, just for you I'll keep the rant active for one whole year.
Now, lets talk about the free and easy access to on-line databases held by FHS's. Are you with me or against?

SylviaInCanada - The Internet has made the world a smaller place but there is so much more we can do. It's hard enough when you live in central England, it must be really frustrating when you're that far away.

jax - go on, you know you want to !

DetEcTive - I wonder what would happen if you slapped a freedom of information request on the parish clerk?

As you have such a bee in your bonnet about getting records put on the internet, why not volunteer to help to do something about it?

I agree totally Slartibartfast - you're bang on,the people who do not want info put on the net for all to see are selfish,I am sure we would all pay a nominal fee to view parish records etc but the trouble is Genealogy is becoming a very expensive hobby,I have been a member of Ancestry.co.uk and Genes Reunited for the past 10 yrs but as I am retired I now find the £107 subscription, although worth it beyond my financial commitments,and therefore I have had have to use Ancestry ad hoc at a library, as the government closed my local library this now means a 10 mile round bus trip, so much easier if records were on line,parish records, workhouse, cemetery records (say before 1911) etc.
As you say these are public records and therefore local authorities should not be charging fees for the info and worse still allowing private companies to make millions out of what is after all PUBLIC PROPERTY.
Another thing that really bugs me is the varying cost of BMD certs depending where you purchase them, these were paid for by our ancestors originally and we are just getting copies, soit is fine that we pay for the copies but I have paid between £9 and £30 depending at what registry office and which local authority I buy them , surely this is not right.
To give an eg; if I buy my ancestors death cert in Newport reg office at one price and yet just 7miles away in Pontypool I will pay £5 more Why ? Elsewhere around the UK prices for certs vary WHY?
They say it is up to each local authority to set their prices I believe this is unfair, all certs should have a standard price immaterial of where purchased.
I put this point out on GR and received lots of replies disagreeing with me I just don't see it as fair play.
Genealogy is expensive enough however it is frustrating to be fleeced as usual by government please these are public records stop making a fortune out of us who are interested only in keeping our own records of our families, lets get the records on line and prevent companies inc government offices making money out of this wonderful hobby.
I am sure there are plenty of volunteers out there willing to help get the records on line if not lets take the money we are charge or certs and searches and get civil servants in registry offices or elsewhere in local authorities to put the records on line.

bmd

As you have been researching for so many years, I am astonished that you do not know that the place to get certs is from the GRO, who charge a standard fee of £9.25 including postage.

And I would think the idea of getting civil servants to put records on line to satisfy the needs of hobbyists would go down like a lead balloon with the majority of the tax-paying public

As a tax-paying OAP who does FH research, I'd be the first to complain at such an abuse of public funds.................

As you say, this is a HOBBY

Would you expect to be subsidising people who play golf for a hobby?

Or make model aeroplanes for a hobby?

Be realistic........please.

And, as I suggested to the OP.........if you want records on the net..........volunteer to do something about it

I'm pretty sure that if you ran a Genealogy site offering BMD's and other info you would like it to make money

If you don't like the thrill of the chase don't enter the competition.

I can't imagine any professional researcher doing the work for nothing, so why should the people who spend time and money transcribing records be any different?

I wonder, do the professionals who use the free sites tell their clients that the info they are passing on didn't cost them anything?

FreeCEN is another site where volunteers do the work.