Genealogy Chat

Possibly asking far too much with this request, but I'm looking for as much info on the following...
William COLLEY....Born: 1786? I think he married a Mary Couch, possibly in 1827. I understand in the Devon/Cornwall area....
My apologies with the lack of dates etc. but this is all I have to go on..
If any children crop up, GREAT, if William's parents crop up, even GREATER,
Many,many thanks..................

John :-)

Hi John, is this him on the 1841 Census?

William Colley age 55, carpenter, wife Mary age 50,( 1791) and son Wiliam age 20 (1821) carpenter. All living in Stoke damerel, Devon.


Class: HO107; Piece 273; Book: 3; Civil Parish: Stoke Damerell; County: Devon; Enumeration District: 3; Folio: 4; Page: 2; Line: 3; GSU roll: 241334.

Sue

Hi Sue, they are the ones - Tremendous work.... May I ask if there is any other info on that family please...
John

Don't know if this is him?

WILLIAM COLLEY Male

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 08 JUN 1781 Saint Germans, Cornwall, England
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: JOHN COLLEY
Mother: CHARITY

Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

(from Family Search)

Going back that far there are obviously lots of variations on the surname.

Hi MarieCeleste,
I don't think so, "My" William Colley was born in 1786, the one Sue listed with son William.
I've tried to find the First William's parents but no Joy, I've looked around the dates 1760 - 1765 for births and around the 1780s for any marriage..
John

From the 1851 Census:-

Mary Colley, a widow, listed as a Pauper, at 44 King Street, Stoke Damerel, Devon.........

Name: Mary Colley
Age: 62
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1789
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: St Germans, Cornwall, England.

Civil parish: Stoke Damerel
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Devonport
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Registration district: Stoke Damerel
Sub-registration district: Morice
ED, institution, or vessel: 1f
Household schedule number: 73
Piece: 1882
Folio: 246
Page Number: 18

Karen, that looks like her.[poor old girl must have hit hard times] ,
Many thanks for that info Karen..
John :-)

Might be William's death


Name:
COLLEY, William
Registration District: Bideford
County: Devon
Year of Registration: 1845
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Volume No: 10
Page No: 35

Thanks Vivvi, you could be right - Six years as a window, may well account why she was listed as a pauper..
Not quite sure of thatone Vivvi
John

Searching deaths of William Colley, Devon, 1841-1851, Freebmd offers only one, and that's the one Vivvi has given, ie Bideford 1845.

John, have you tried using www.freebmd.org.uk, it's a great search tool and better still, it's free!

K

Many thanks Karen.... will do..... You were right Vivvi... Many thanks.
John.. :-)

John


The ages of people over the age of 15 were usually rounded down to the nearest 5 on the 1841 Census


Not all enumerators did that, although most did.


Note that Mary's age changes from 50 b. 1791 on the 1841 to 62 b. 1789 on the 1851.


Ages can be as much as 4 years too young on the 1841.



Thus the baptism that MarieCeleste found, COULD be the right one.




sylvia

Remember, John, that ages on the 41 census for those over 15 are rounded down to the neares 5 or 0. So William's age of 55 could be 55-59 making him born 1782-1786.

Edit: Oops, I was typing at the same time that my fellow Canuck, Sylvia was posting. Sorry for the repetition.

Morning Sylvia, Margee and Karen - apologies for delay in answering to your advice/suggestions, I'm learning something new every day..... I really am grateful for all your assistance..............
John :-)

How can I find the parents of WILLIAM COLLEY born 1786 in Devon..
[married Mary Couch as above No.1 post]..... Trying to extend on the wife's Fam Tree....
John

I'm also wondering how John knows it is Mary Couch


I found a couple of marriages of a William Colley to a Mary in the relevant area and time epriod ....... neither was to a Mary Couch!




sylvia

well, I found a marriage of a Mary Couch to a William Colley in 1827 on beta.familysearch .......................... but there are many Mary Couch's marrying William's, and I don't honestly see how John determined this was the correct marriage


England Marriages, 1538–1973 for Mary Couch

Groom's Name: William Colley
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:
Bride's Name: Mary Couch
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:
Marriage Date: 01 Dec 1827
Marriage Place: Stoke Damerel,Devon,England
Groom's Father's Name:
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name:
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status:
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status:
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M05242-1
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 916927
Reference Number:




William Colley is rather old for marrying for the first time in 1827 if he was indeed born in 1786 +/- 5 years.




sylvia

Actually, the census asked how old people were in years, it is the modern day transcriber who translates age into birth year.

Because of the variance in time of census vs birth date, there will always be a variance in age between censuses .... and in reality as well.

I beleive that only children below the age of about 5 will show an accurate age on a census ....... and that doesn't always apply either!


You should always assume that the age given on a census is plus or minus 2 years ........ and then also assume that in the early years, the individual might well not have known how old he/she (or their spouse or children!) really were.

Remember that most people were illiterate.


As a result, I usually ask in searches for birth year +/- 5 years ...... especially as people get older.


Also never blindly trust the birth place as given on a census.

1. A baby might have been born in one place, then moved as a very small child to another. As an adult, that person might well believe that they had been born in the second place.

2. The enumerator would ask "where were you born?". Person answered with the name of a very small village, farm or even house. Enumerator then said "Never heard of that! Where's it near then?"

The reply would be the name of a larger village or even small town, which the enumerator had heard of ........... and that's what he wrote down.


and hence we go haring off looking for someone born in somewhere he never was!


3. Consider the very strong dialects and accents that would have been the case back then. Someone who moved from Devon to, say, Manchester, would be hardly understandable (and vice versa!!) .................. so you might get an interpretation of what the enumerator thought he heard!



It all makes it the more challenging, and fascinating, for us descendants!



sylvia

Just a note that on the 1841 Census, neither William nor Mary were born in Devon.

Son William was born in Devon.



sylvia

Very interesting!!!!


Public Family trees on ancestry shoudl be trusted without checking everyhting very carefully .... they so often do not have documentary evidence, and people just copy information willy-nilly, so one wrong piece of data may be copied and copied multiple times


HOWEVER


re that baptism that MC found ............ a William Colley baptised 1781 in Cornwall with parents John Colley and Charity


There are about 12 trees on ancestry that have the following. One of the trees says the source was from the International Genealogical Index ...... which is basically the same place that MC found it. The others have all seemingly copied their information from that one.

So there is absolutely NO real evidence that this is YOUR William Colley.


But note the mother's surname!



William Colley
Birth 1781 in St Germans, Cornwall, , England
Death

Parents

John Colley
1744 – 1785

Charity Couch
1749 –


Siblings

John Couch Colley
1775 –

Henry Colley
1778 –

Edward Colley
1783 –




sylvia