Genealogy Chat

Hello Lancashire Ann, Sorry I'm so late in replying...KIDS!! Thankyou so much for that glimmer of hope. I will send for that cert and let you know asap. You are a star, cheers.

on cheshirebmd the 1912 death from freebmd I gave you is this one

Cheshire Death indexes for the years: 1912
Surname Forename(s) Age Sub-District Registers At Reference
DUNN William 52 Ashton Town Tameside AST/147/53

I might be worth sending for that certificate. As you do not know where or when he died it would be difficult to identify where he might be buried.

Lancashire Anne, Thank you for that regarding Elizabeth.Im really not very good at this but I refuse to give up! I am thinking they weren't married but said they were for decency. Do you think Ill find Williams death cert anywhere specifically? Or if he was on a boat after all, maybe it isn t recorded? Cheers

that does seem to indicate that she was not married before and was born as Elizabeth Bell.

If she had previously been married the birth cert should have said eg

Elizabeth Dunne formerly Bell (ie maiden name) previously/lately Smith (ie previous married name)

Hi lancashire Ann, On the birth cert of Edward she is down as Elizabeth Dunne formally Bell. Hope this helps. cheers

just to prove the right partner in that 1890 marriage

Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1886 to 1890
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
KENYON Elizabeth Hannah BELL Herbert Ashton under Lyne Civil Marriage Tameside RM/70/118

but is this the only time she is referred to as Elizabeth Hannah?

On the other hand she could have been born as Bell and married once before William. There are a few options.

How exactly she she described on one of her children's birth certificates?

Hi Nicky,
1891 Could Bell have been Elizabeths name from a previous marriage..? In answer to your question....... Maybe. I did wonder ... on the 1911 census it says they ve been married for 18 yrs. So around 1893 they were married and their first child was born in 1899. It appears that they were childless for 6 yrs before William junior was born.

I was just wondering if she`d married William under the surname Kenyon.......?? but i can`t find a marriage for that name either.......!!

Obviously this is pure speculation, just clutching at straws really..


so we are looking for a death for William between 1911 and August 1916...well that narrows it down a bit.

Nicky

Hi Nicky, ummm that too is interesting. Not sure now what I do with all this? I do feel its beginning to make sense. I must mention also that on Elizabeths death cert it states she was the WIDOW of William Dunne (Tailor) So the dates we are looking at are between 1911 and 5th august 1916. cheers x

???

Marriages Mar 1890 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>Bell Herbert Ashton 8d 600
HOWARTH John James Ashton 8d 600
Jamieson Annie Beatrice Ashton 8d 600
>>>>Kenyon Elizabeth Hannah Ashton 8d 600



Nicky

1891..

Could Bell have been Elizabeths name from a previous marriage..??

BELL, Herbert Head Married M 24 1867 Cotton Spinner
Retford
Nottinghamshire VIEW
BELL, Elizabeth H Wife Married F 21 1870
Ashton-Under-Lyne
Lancashire VIEW
BELL, Clara Daughter F 0 (7M) 1891
Ashton-Under-Lyne
Lancashire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG12 Piece:
3275 Folio:
17 Page:
28

Registration District:
Ashton Under Lyne Sub District:
Ashton Town Enumeration District:
1 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St Stephens

Civil Parish:
Ashton Under Lyne Municipal Borough:
Ashton Under Lyne Address:
14, Britannia Street, Ashton Under Lyne County:
Lancashire



Nicky

Hello Lancashire Ann, Hey thats interesting! Maybe? thankyou.x

Hello Sylvia, I'm extremely grateful for any info displayed even if it is duplicated. it could also mean that we are all on the same track. So please all do carry on. Please do bear with me!! My dad doesn't have any documa
entation, only his memory and he mentioned that William was called William Patrick. He said this when i told him I couldn't find a William J in the records. On Edwards birth cert it only states his father as William Dunne. There is one story that came to light a little while ago and that was that whilst William was a tailor he was trying to make ends meet and so as an extra income he did a stint on a fishing boat. Thankyou again x

Hi again, William may have returned to Ireland after Elizabeths and Norahs death but that would mean he knowingly left his other children William 17, David 16. Catherine 13 Edward 10 and James Henry 9yrs at home alone. I know that my grandfather and younger brother went into Shepherd St Mission Preston after their mums death. I'm not sure what happened to the rest.My dad who is nearly 80 has mentioned his auntie Kate (Catherine) in conversation. He also said, that one of them went to war and never came back? One married a German? And that he thought that William Patrick had around 18 children, he thought he'd been married before. Oh dear me!!!!!! The family were living at 14 oak st preston at the time Elizabeth died. I don't know if William was there but William junior signed the death cert. I do have Edward and Nellie s marriage cert and it states they were married in the Independant Chapel Belthorne may 25th 1931. Edwards father is down as being deceased anda farmer but on earlier census he was a journeyman tailor. His address was White croft Bungalows. The Straights, Hoghton. The witness' were Nellie's brother and sister Clarence Mee Beaumont and Ivy Almond nee Beaumont. Really hopes this helps and thankyou.x

possible death?

Deaths Mar 1912 (>99%)
Dunn William 52 Ashton 8d 780

The fact that Elizabeth & son William signed those death certificates seems to indicate father William was not around as it would have been more natural in those days for the head of the household to do so

Claire

just to clear up one small point

You may have the information from the 1901 and 1911 censuses ....... but the helpers don't, and that is why both Nicky and tempest posted them on the thread

You may notice that tempest said "to help us" and Nicky posted "for reference"


We really do need all the information that you have in order to help us

......... even wrong names that you have followed and discovered to be wrong are a help, as that prevents us from following the same false trail.




How does your dad know that his middle name was Patrick? Does he have some documentation?


Do you have your grandfather's birth certificate? That would have his father's name on it.



sylvia

If William was born in Ireland do you think he may have returned there after Elizabeths death?


Where were Norah and elizabeth living at the time of their deaths?

Please give as much info as you can.....it all helps narrow down the search.

As you know what happened to your grandfather Edward ,where did he marry please, ? do you have his marriage cert.? if so who were the witnesses? what was his address at time of marriage.?



Nicky

Thankyou Nicky for your reply. I do actually have this information but not Williams birth death or even marriage info. He has disapeared competely? Any ideas or pointers where to go next? x

Hi and thankyou for your concern. I too thought it was William J Dunne but my dad enlightened me that his name was William Patrick Dunne. After looking at the 1911 census and the 1901 census you may realise his initial P has been mistaken for a J. The date of birth is a pure guess taken fom the census. Apart from the family members, which are correct, other information differs from one census to the other. Maybe he was trying to hide something and trying not to be traced or perhaps they just did make whopping errors. Perhaps Elizabeth and himself couldn't get married for some reason but she did carry the Dunne name up until the day she died. Its odd that i can't find any info on him after 1911.

1901 for reference....

DUNN, William Head Married M 36 1865 U Journeyman Tailor
Ireland VIEW
DUNN, Elizabeth Wife Married F 31 1870
Aston Under Line VIEW
DUNN, William Son Single M 2 1899
Chester
Cheshire VIEW
DUNN, David Son Single M 1 1900
Chester
Cheshire VIEW
HAIL, Isaac Visitor Married M 32 1869 Beer Bottler
Chester
Cheshire VIEW
HAIL, Francis Visitor Married F 41 1860
VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG13 Piece:
3372 Folio:
52 Page:
37

Registration District:
Chester Sub District:
Chester Cathedral Enumeration District:
3 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St Peters

Civil Parish:
Chester Municipal Borough:
Address:
5, Goss Street, Chester County:
Cheshire



Nicky