Genealogy Chat

Can anybody help me and explain or sort out the wife of Arthur Mayle born 2 Sep 1869
I have followed the family carefully since he married down to 1911 Census all declare his wife to be Mary Ann.
His son Charles Samuel birth cert 1 Mar 1891 gives mother as Mary Ann Wright.

The 1911 Census says MaryAnn married 25 years. 9 children born but 4 died
Her YOB abt 1869 Newington, London corresponds with all the census records. Her approx year of marriage 1885 when she would have been about 16.
I can't find a birth of marriage in that name.
However there is a marriage to a Mary Louisa Pocock, spinster 14 Jun 1886 - St Lukes Church, Camberwell, London, England. That entry has no father on the cert.

I can't find a birth for her either. So many trees presumes it to be the same person but I can't match the names because even the first names are different.

Info about Arthur Mayle
Birth ref: 1867, Oct-Dec, Camberwell, 1d, 567 - 33 James Street, Camberwell, London
1871 census, age 3, address 16 Nutfield Road, St Giles, Camberwell, Lambeth, London, Surrey
1881 census, age 13, address 2 Foston Street, Camberwell, London, Surrey - Mother May (Mary)
1891 census, Arthur 24, address 9 Fraylands Road, St. George, Camberwell, London
1901 census, Arthur 34, address 25 East Surrey Gr, All Saints North Peckham, Camberwell, London - His age has been transcribed wrong as 38
1911 census, age 43, address 16 Cator Street, Peckham - house decorator

I can't find 2 marriages for Arthur either
Is it possible there are 2 families mixed up

Wonder if the experts could please look at this - I've done my best

Susanne

I'd be tempted to get Edith Mary's birth cert.
Edith Mary Mayle
Year of Registration: 1886
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Camberwell
County: Greater London, London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 954

just to see what version of the mother's name is on that one!

Arthur's signature on the 1886 marriage is very similar (won't say identical!) to the one as witness to Edith Mary's marriage.

Perhaps Mary (whoever) just didn't really know who she was born as?

Good luck!!

Maureen

Arthur E. Mayle

England and Wales Census, 1881
birth: 1868 — Camberwell, Surrey, England
residence: Camberwell, Surrey, England

record title: England and Wales Census, 1881
name: Arthur E. Mayle
age: 13
gender: Male
birth year: 1868
birthplace: Camberwell, Surrey, England
relationship to head of household: Son
profession / occupation: Scholar
address: 2 Foston
census place: Camberwell, Surrey, England
record type: Household
family history library film: 1341157
the national archives reference: RG11
piece / folio: 0674 / 92
page number: 49

???

Mary Ann Mayle

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
residence: Surrey, England
parents: Charles Mayle, Mary

record title: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
name: Mary Ann Mayle
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 12 Jun 1864
baptism/christening place: St Peters, Croydon, Surrey, England
father's name: Charles Mayle
mother's name: Mary
indexing project (batch) number: I02191-8
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 994340

????

Alice Mayle

England and Wales Census, 1891
birth: Camberwell, Surrey
residence: England

record title: England and Wales Census, 1891
name: Alice Mayle
age: 23
gender: Female
birthplace: Camberwell, Surrey
relationship to head of household: Daughter
record type: Census

Robert Elictor Mayle

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
residence: Lambeth, Surrey, England
parents: Arthur Mayle, Mary Ann

record title: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
name: Robert Elictor Mayle
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 14 Dec 1879
baptism/christening place: St. Barnabas, Lambeth, Surrey, England
father's name: Arthur Mayle
mother's name: Mary Ann
indexing project (batch) number: C00177-3
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 355614

Mary Ethel Mayle

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
residence: Lambeth, Surrey, England
parents: Arthur Mayle, Mary Ann

record title: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
name: Mary Ethel Mayle
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 14 Dec 1879
baptism/christening place: St. Barnabas, Lambeth, Surrey, England
father's name: Arthur Mayle
mother's name: Mary Ann
indexing project (batch) number: C00177-3
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 355614

?????

Alice M Mayle

England and Wales Census, 1901
birth: 1875 — Camberwell
residence: Camberwell, London, Middlesex, England

record title: England and Wales Census, 1901
name: Alice M Mayle
event: Census
event date: 31 Mar 1901
gender: Female
age: 26
relationship to head of household: Lodger
birthplace: Camberwell
record type: Household
registration district: Camberwell
sub-district: Camberwell
ecclesiastical parish: St Barnabas Dulwich
civil parish: Camberwell
county: Camberwell, Camberwell, Camberwell, London, Middlesex

For the children Arthur, Lilian Maud, Grace Maud and Edward/Edwin Horace the mother is listed at Mary Ann in the London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906.

Rose

I just want this for easy reference!

from the 1901 Census

Name Age

Arthur Mayle 38
Mary A Mayle 31
Edith Mayle 11
Arthur Mayle 12
Charles Mayle 10
Grace Mayle 3





so the baptisms that Ann posted for Robert Elictor and Mary Ethel, with parents Arthur and Mary Ann .... and that I also found on the new beta.familysearch site ............... must be from the previous generation, and NOT of course your Arthur and Mary Ann!




sylvia

Did you note that the Arthur Mayle who married Mary Louisa Pocock in 1886 says his occupation was Cabinet Maker, and his father was Thomas Mayle, Cabinet Maker. Address given as 39 Heber Road, East Dulwich.


much of that is hard to fit in with your Arthur! Except for the name of his father and his occupation


In 1871, Arthur is 3, father Thomas is a Cabinet maker

In 1881, Arthur E is a Scholar, father Thomas is Cabinet Maker

In 1891, Arthur is a General Labourer

In 1901, Arthur is a Painter and Paperhanger



Now ................. to be a Cabinet Maker requires an apprenticeship of about 7 years. There was not enough time between 1881 when Arthur was at school and 1886 when he married to finish his apprenticeship ....... and it would be wrong to call himself Cabinet Maker when he had not finished the apprenticeship. There are very tight rules and regulations around apprenticeships.


Did he lie in 1886?


It is also rather strange that a Cabinet Maker then becomes a generla Labourer, although it is not that strange that a General Labourer became a Painter and Paper Hanger.




In short .................... I think you may well have TWO Arthur Mayles




sylvia

I really think it's the same Arthur,though!

DID you look those signatures ???

I agree that the occupation in further census didn't look "right",but heck-maybe he wasn't very good at it! Or Dad got a little ticked off because he (Arthur) married at such a young age to a very pregnant teen.

Maureen

Hi Maureen


no, I didn't look at the signatures yet ..... I decided my eyes were a little too tired for that!




sylvia

???????

birth registration for Mary Louisa Pocock??????


Births Jun 1868 (>99%)

POCOCK Mary Louisa E Newington 1d 230





I also note from trees on ancestry that Mayle may possibly be spelled MAILE




sylvia

Are we making this up???
Marriages Mar 1870
Pocock Ellen Elizabeth Camberwell 1d 655
Wright Samuel Camberwell 1d 655


Maureen

WOW



I wondered if there would be a Pocock/Wright marriage!



I think Susanne needs to buy some certificates:-


the birth certificate for Mary Louisa Pocock

then the marriage for Ellen Elizabeth Pococl and Samuel Wright

then the certificate for Edith Mary



sylvia

Could this be them in 1881???????????


1881 Census

Name: Samuel Wright
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ellen Wright
Gender: Male
Where born: Lambeth, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Camberwell
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 2 Diamond St (Ginger Beer Dealers Shop)
Condition as to marriage: Married

Occupation: Laborer

Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: St George

Samuel Wright 30
Ellen Wright 40 b.ca 1841, Lambeth, Surrey
Louisa M. Wright 13 b.ca 1868, Southwark, Surrey, Scholar
Samuel Wright 4 b.ca 1877, Lambeth
Mary A. Wright 3 b.ca 1878, Lambeth
Charles W. Wright 11 mths b.ca 1880, Lambeth





sylvia

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Samuel Wright
Age: Full Age
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Spouse Name: Ellen Elizabeth Pocock
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 30 Jan 1870
Parish: St George, Camberwell
County: Surrey
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: James Wright, Bricklayer
Spouse Father Name: Samuel Pocock, Painter


from image:-

both of Full Age

Spinster and Bachelor

Address:- New Church Road

Witnesses:- Benjamin Williams and Alfred Braddy




sylvia

My eyes just gave up,Sylvia!
I've gotta take a break.

Love,
Maureen

and I'm off to bed right now!


my eyes are giving up as well.


it's not far off midnight here.


s
xxx