Genealogy Chat

Hello Lancashireann,
many thanks for looking for me, I found the ellen cook 1st child of Ellen Cook but what I find confusing is that there is a second child, Peter, who is listed as illegitimate but Henry and Ellen were married in 1811, so why would the children be classed as illegitimate?
I have not tried a will yet for Henry but will do so.;
I know what you mean about Henry and ellen being Winwick as most things seem to revolve around that township, the Henry and Betty Heaton marriage was around Pemberton, but I don't know how close that is..... thanks for everything, I will keep digging... M.

as it is not an unusual name I would guess that they are 2 different Ellen Cooks tho I can only find 1 Ellen in Winick

Baptism: 3 Jan 1794 St Oswald, Winwick, Lancashire, England
Ellen Cook - daughter of Thomas Cook
Born: 4 Dec 1793
Abode: Croft
Register: Baptisms 1777 - 1806, Page 56, Entry 2
Source: LDS Film 1655876

Baptisms: No date given Sep 1795 St Thomas, Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire, England
Ellen Cooke - Daughter of John Cooke
Born: 12 Aug 1795
Register: Baptisms 1765-1809, Page 88, Entry 30
Source: FHL British Film 1885657

Connection to Witnesses on marriage certificate.

1841 Alice you think is with Henry 60 betty 45 also Peter 1821.
By the way on the neat census page to this is Joseph Duckworth age 20 and Robert age 35.Robert married Ellen beesley 1842.

1861 Peter could also be in Haydock where Alice and Joseph Duckworth went.
He is in District 7.>27
Peter Cook widow age 42 born Ashton Lancs coal miner

Next door but one is Joseph Bradbury born 1812 St Helens Lancs!!!!!!!!!!

Maryb

Scrap that,i think there were 2 peter Cook's.
The one on 1841 census seems to have married Charlotte,1st child HENRY 1842.
On 1851 census at Church Street
1861 Church Lane
1871 Gustavos same as 1841
1881 D3 > 43 Gustavos Peter was a Blacksmith.

The Peter Cooke a retired Blacksmith who married Charlotte died 20/8/1904 reg in Wigan.
Left £1034 10s 5d to Henry Wiswell wheelright
Simon peter Cooke son Bookeeper
Thomas Cooke son Teacher.

I know this isn't really helping,unless this is actually the brother to your Alice.

Maryb

Christenings in Wigan by Henry and Elizabeth Cook

Alice Born 19/12/1815 ch 21/4/1816

Peter born 28/12/1820 ch 23/12/1820
Elizabeth born 10/8/1824 ch 5/12/1824.

Maryb

Well i thought i had found Betty Heatons birth but maybe not.

I'am posting anyway as I think there is a connection somewhere.

Betty Heaton born July 1792 in ashton to Samuel heaton and Jane Cundley 1774 -1805,only thing is there is a tree which says Betty died 1792.
She had a sister Mary heaton 17/3/1798 she married Henry Foster witness James WISWELL the name from Peter Cooke's will 1904.The one who could be Alice's brother.

On the same tree on Ancestry they have Margaret Callon 1862 married to Thomas Litherland.
Margaret Callon's brother Peter Callon 1859 married Elizabeth Duckworth daughter of Alice and Joseph.

Strange don't you think?

Maryb

Hi, just got back to this today, many thanks Lancashireann and Mary, I need to try to make sense of all this, my head is in a spin..... I have not been doing too bad so far, but now it seems to be getting more complicated..... There is also a "hot match" with Alice Cook which I am making contact with..... it was much easier when you could send for a birth cert!!!!!! thanks so much I am determined to sort this out, only with you all helping of course..... M

Hello all,
I am back once again... sorry for the delay but was trying to get my head round all the information from mary and Lancashire Ann, for which I am extremely gratefull.
When I planned it out with pen and paper there looks to be an awful lot of connections with the Henry/ Elizabeth camp as opposed to the Henry/Ellen camp. Does anyone know the significance if any of Winwick, Lowton as opposed to Winwick, Ashton in Makerfield and is Pemberton anywhere near, as that is the name on the marriage entry of Henry/Elizabeth.
Mary I am really interested in your find on the tree on ancestry with Margaret Callon, sister of Peter and the connection to Alice and Joseph, I don;t have a subscription to Ancestry but can access free at the local library, but would I be able to access other trees??? thanks M

In 1835 the parish of Winwick contained the townships of Winwick with Hulme, Houghton, Middleton and Arbury, Southworth with Croft, Culcheth, Newton in Makerfield, Haydock, Ashton in Makerfield, Golborne, Lowton and Kenyon.

Pemberton 8 miles from Winwick

all info from GENUKI

Hi Wellybobs.
If the library has membership then yes you can view the tree.

In search on Ancestry put Margaret Callan 1862 lancashire,the tree owner is Kirsty's family tree.

Maryb
Edit more children to Henry Cooke and Elizabeth Heaton in Wigan
Richard born 16/10/1810
John born 22/6/1812
Ann 14/12/1813.

A Henry was christened 3/4/1771 by Richard.

A Richard ch 21/7/1745 by a henry and Elizabeth.

So you can see Henry had Richard then Richard had Henry then Henry had richard which was the norm in those days to name your first son after your dad.

3 betty heatons in right timline
Betty born 13/1/1790 to James and Ann nee Laland

Betty 2/3/1792 to Richard and Ann nee Lowe.

This one maybe too young Betty 25/2/1796 to Joseph and Sarah nee Atherton.

Connection maybe,on Henry Cooke and Elizabeth heatons marriage were William BANCKS as witness.

Richard Cooke born 1745 to Henry Cooke and elizabeth.
This marriage could be them
Henry to Elizabeth Hasleden 23/5/1732.

Elizabeth Hasleden/Bancks christened 4.10.1718 to Thomas BANCKS and Elizabeth Hasleden.

Maryb

Hi, thanks for the new information. LA I know you favour the Henry Cook and Ellen whittle but in light of the number of co-incidental names popping up on the Henry/Betty front I would appreciate your opinion on this. I appreciate the info on the township of winwick and don't know how relevant the parish on line record of Henry/Betty from Pemberton is. I do know from the marriage cert of Joseph Duckworth/Alice Cook they were married in theparish church of Winwick but it was registered as Warrington on BMD which would have thrown me completely off track.
Mary, thanks for more info, I really don't know how you all manage to track down so much information I go dizzy with it all, especially as they all seem to name the children the same names!!

Forgot to say that I have made contact with two hot matches, they seem to share the same tree, but the Alice they have seems to be the one with no named father, so I can rule her out as her mother ellen later married a chap called John, no match there by the look of it but lots of children with the same names, yet again..... M.

Hi Mary,
I am feeling dimwitted this morning.... can you explain in a bit more detail the significance of your last posting, re Richard, Henry and Elizabeth Hasleden etc.,
I am not very good at assimilating lots of info, don;t think I would have made a good researcher or a copper for that matter!!
I really appreciate all the help being given. many thanks. M.

I would ignore trying to find any connection to William Bancks. he is the witness on almost every marriage at that church in 1910 which means he was probably just the parish clerk.

It was very common at that time for the parish clerk to act as a witness.

Hi, thanks LA
I must admit I not noticed about Bancks, but as I have looked through parish records I have noticed lots of Thos Walker.... witness and did begin to wonder if he was a proffessional witness!! I was going to go to the library today to follow up on the ancestry tree to see if that was a match, it sounds quite promising, ( Peter Callon my husbands great grandfather married the daughter of Joseph Duckworth and Alice (cook) goodness knows which cook it was though) but the weather is so foul I decided that it can wait a while longer. So once again many thanks. M.

Hi,
I finally got to the library today, and got into Ancestry, but of course cos I am not a member I could not view any trees, either that or I was doing something wrong!
Could any of you kind people please do a look up for me..... Mary said that there is a tree (Kirsty's tree) which has a Margaret Callon c 1862, her brother Peter was married to Elizabeth Duckworth who was the daughter of Joseph Duckworth and Alice Cook, this may help to determine the name of Alice's mother which so far, with your help ,we have a choice of Elizabeth (betty) Heaton or Ellen Whittles as both were married to a Henry Cook and both had a daughter Alice.
I would really appreciate any additional help you can give, as I have hit a brick wall. Many thanks.

just for info

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1858
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
CALLON Peter Ashton Wigan & Leigh BRADBURY ASHT/10/192
Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1861
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
CALLON Margaret Ashton Wigan & Leigh BRADBURY ASHT/11/472

Hi Welly bobs,

Had a look at the tree for you and the person, Kirsty, does not have any siblings listed for Margaret, just her spouse and children. No parents either.

Thanks LA and Amazinggrace08
I was hoping that there be a bit more information on Kirsty's tree, but it looks like another dead end.
I think I will have to leave this one for a while and move onto a another branch/twig cos it gets so frustrating and I don't really know how I am going to determine which is the family connection..... maybe someone will have Elizabeth Duckworth on their tree with details of her mother and father that match.
Thanks again for trying for me. Will let you know if I find anything. M.