Genealogy Chat

Elizabeth and Henry Plested both died in Norwich in 1862, leaving 3 children, Emma, 15, Henry, 11 and Martha 8.

In 1871, Henry was with his uncle, Ephraim Plunkett. in Norwich, the two sisters were servants in Norwich.

Henry died 1878 and the two girls emigrated to Australia, 1882 and 1884.

Martha became a Bsptitst Missiopnary to Bengal and left letters to say that the family moved to Cambridge where the children she became a member of a Baptist Church, the other children attended Sunday School. her parents attended church but were not members. In 1881. Martha was a servant for Mrs Elizabeth Maris, at Hinxton, Cambs. In 1897 She came to England on Furlough and gave her address as c/o Mrs Elizabeth Maris of Gt Sleford, Cambs. She said her old friend who was over 80, was in tears wwhen they met, saying she had been praying that she would see Martha again before she died.. There were two E;izabet Maris' on the census, of similar age, Mrs at Hinxton and Miss at Gt Shelford. They were probably sistesr in law.. One died in 1891 and the other in 1898.

But I have digressed. My question is, Can I trace who adopted Martha and moved to Cambridge? and when?

Having a hard time trying to understand the large paragraph.

What makes you think they were adopted?

Martha is working with a Plunkett in 1871 so perhaps they went to the Plunketts?

Rose

David

Probably not


There was no official records of adoptions until the 1920s ....... about 1924 or 1927.

Before that any adoptions that took place were unoffical, and mainly unrecorded ........... family or friends may have taken in an orphaned child

An orphaned child might have been put into an orphanage ....... and were sometimes adopted out from there. In many such cases, the orphanage might well have kept some sort of record. But the problem would be finding out which orphanage, when etc etc etc


In the worst cases, even a child as young as Martha would have put out to work




sylvia

Thanks for your replies. I have typed two replies and just before I posted them, they disappeared. I have to go out now but will reply later

David

Approx Time Line

Martha said she was the 5th of 6 children. I have some snippests from Australia, Jireh Chapel and Queensland Baptist. While they are mostly useful, the dates given are mostly way out. They have Martha's birth as 1857 and 1862, Norwich, for instances.

Henry Plested b 11.06.1822 Marylebone
Elizabeth Plunkett b 1822 Norwich
Henry Married Elizabeth 31.08.1845 Marylebone, Not sure what she was doing there,
25 April 1847 Emma Plested born. Marylebone
18 March 1851 Henry Alfred Plested born, Marylebone
16 April 1854, Martha Plested born, Marylebone, cert signed by mother's mark X
1857 Approx date Family move to Norwich probably due to illness of Henry.
1848 Louisa born 6th child?
1849 Louisa died
1861 Family living next to Elizabeth's Parents David and Elizabeth Plunkett.
1862 first ¼, Elizabeth's Death registered
1862 last ¼ Henry's death registered leaving 3 children orphans.
1864 (questionable date) Queensland Baptist says
"In the year 1867 the family removed from London to
Norwich, where the children attended the Sunday school in
connection with the Baptist Church, then under the pastorate
of Rev. G. Gould, and it was here that Martha received her
first religious impressions . When about ten years of age
she paid a visit with a friend to Bradford, Yorkshire, and
under the ministry of Rev. J. Holiday, of Horton Lane
Church, was brought to the Saviour, and was there baptised
and united with the church. On returning to Norwich she
was duly transferred , and subsequently on the removal of
the family to Cambridge she united with the Baptist Church.
Her parents followed their children, and attended regularly
the church services, but neither joined the church nor were
baptised."` (Her parents both died when she was 8)

My question is "Who were the parents who moved to Cambridge?

1871 Census all 3 siblings were in Norwich
1874 Henry Married Elizabeth Grimes,
1878 Henry died.
1881, Emma was in Bradford.
1881 Martha was in Hinxton, Cambs.
1882 Emma emigrated to Australia.
1883, 16 October Emma married Thomas Willis ,widower born Chalgove Oxfordshire, England at his residence, Skyring Paddock, Fortitude Valley, Brisbane, Queensland.
1884 Martha emigrated to Australia.
1885 Martha became a member of Jireh Baaptist Church.
1885 Martha became the first Queensland d Baptist missionary and went to East bengal. In India, Martha met Arthur Jewson an English Baptist miissionary and commented that she had been in Mr Jewson's father's Bible Class in England. Arthur Jewson, b 1856, Earith Hunts. I think he was the son of John Wilson Jewson, who took the Jewson businees to Norwich, but I can't find him. (Arthur Jewson wrote about 16 books in Bengali.) Wikipaedia "JEWSON" says that J.W.Jewson had 13 children.
1897, Martha came to England on furlough, giving her address as
C/o Mrs. Maris, De Trevillie Farm, Great Shelford, Cambridgeshire, England. This may not be the same Mrs Maris as on the 1881 census, as there were two ladies by the name of Elizabeth Maris, one in Hinxton and one in Gt Shelford, both about the same age.. I believe they were sisters in law.

She wrote "My dear old lady, with whom I am staying, is over 80 years of age. She has been praying that the Lord would let her see me once more. She was quite overcome when we met. This is an old farm house and the family have occupied it for more than 300 years." This Elizabeth Maris died in 1898, the other, 1891.
1897, December, Martha returned to Bengal
1907. Emma died.
1922, Martha died in Sydney on 22 Dec 1922 before reaching her family in Brisbane. She was buried at Toowong Cemetery on 27 Dec 1922 and there is quite a large monument to her provided by the Baptists.

I cannot find the ref at present , but she retired in India as she had no close relattions, a sister (in law?) who was in financial difficulty, nephews who just were a distant memory. One of those was my grandfather who died in WW1, France in1918.

So you see I have a lot of information about Martha, except who was the family who moved to Cambridge?

???? the baptisms of 4 children are shown on the Metropilitan London records on ancestry children




London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Elizabeth Sarah Plested
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 11 Jan 1846
Father's Name: Henry Plested
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Plested
Parish: Christ Church, St Marylebone
Borough: Westminster
County: London

from image:-

Born:- 20th Nov 1845
Address:- 4 Carlisle Street
Father's occupation:- Wine Cooper



Name: Emma Plested
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 1 Oct 1848
Father's Name: Henry Plested
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Plested
Parish: St Mary, Paddington Green
Borough: Westminster
County: Middlesex

from image:-

Born:- April 25 1847
Address:- Hall Park
Father's occupation:- Winecooper



Name: Amelia Plested
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 1 Oct 1848
Father's Name: Henry Plested
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Plested
Parish: St Mary, Paddington Green
Borough: Westminster
County: Middlesex

from image:-

Born:- May 25 1848



Name: Henry Alfred Plested
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 22 Jun 1851
Father's Name: Henry Plested
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Plested
Parish: Christ Church, St Marylebone
Borough: Westminster
County: London

from image:-

Born:- 18 March 1851
Address:- 61 Devonshire Street
Father's occupation:- Wine Porter



sylvia

do you have this




London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Henry Plested
Age: Full Age
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Spouse Name: Elizabeth Plunkett
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 31 Aug 1845
Parish: St Mary, Bryanston Square
County: Middlesex
Borough: Westminster
Father Name: Thomas Plested
Spouse Father Name: David Plunkett


from image:-


Henry
Bachelor
Of Full Age
Wine Cooper
Address:- Of St Mary's District

Father's occupation:- Wine Cooper


Elizabeth

Spinster
Of Full Age
No occupation ived
Address:- Of Same District

Father's occupation:- Carpenter


Witnesses:- John Richardson and Sarah Plested



sylvia

It alos strikes me that there are some wrong facts in that excerpt form teh Queensland Baptist


which is not surprising as it was very probably written long after the events had occurred ............... and you are depending on relying on the memory of a child, which is what she was.


It may well be that the family for whome she was working moved to Cambridge


Unfortunately, the odds are that you will never find out ......... as there was no formal adoptions in thse days, so no records


the events occurred between censuses


and I can think of no other written record that you could find.




sylvia

Wonder who took her to Bradford? Might be worth tracking down the Reverends.

I found George Gould in 1861 and 1871.

Rose

In 1871 Martha was a Servant in the household of a Martha Hawkins. A Rachel Plunket was also a Servant

1871 Census

Name: Martha Plauterd
[Martha Plested]
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1855
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: London, England
Civil parish: Heigham
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England
Registration district: Norwich
Sub-registration district: West Wymer

Martha Hawkins 74 b.ca 1797, Norwich, Unmarried, Fund Holder
Rachel Plunket 49 b.ca 1822, Norwich, Cook
Martha Plauterd 16 Housemaid

Address:- Unthanks (???) Row



Rachel was House Servant with Martha Hawkins in 1861

In 1881, Rachel was Head and Annuitant living at 21 Essex Street, Heigham .................... which implies that Martha Hawkins had died and left her "comfortably off". In 1891, Rachel was Living on her Own Means at 41 Essex Street in Heigham. She died in 1910.


I don't think there was any "family" that took Martha to Cambridge.


It looks like Rachel Plunket(t) may have been a relation of Martha's mother Elizabeth. That Rachel got her a job as a House Maid with Miss Martha Hawkins, and that Martha then moved onto another job in Cambridgeshire with the Maris couple .... possibly after Martha Hawkins death in 1876


Deaths Sep 1876 (>99%)

Hawkins Martha 80 Norwich 4b 112



Our ancestors did move around more than we have been led to believe.



In other words, I think you are searching for something that didn't happen.



Remember that Martha didn't even leave for Australia until 1884 .... so whatever was written in the records down there came at least 20 years after the events happened.





sylvia

Rose


I did try to find J Holiday in Bradford ........... I could only find a Joseph, and he wasn't a Baptist Minister!




sylvia

Thanks for all your help, at least I have now got the names and details of all the children, and other details.

As to Unthank Road. I have just been reading two booklets on Baptist History in Norwich and there was a Baptist Chapel in Unthank Road, but it was built on Leasehold land and when the lease ran out, the Norwich corporation wanted mare than they could afford in revised rent or to purchase so the chapel closed in 1941.

Sylvia

Baptists kept records of baptisms and membership. It is just finding out if the still exist and where. I have been given info, in the past, that Emma Plested and Elizabeth Louisa Grimes, Henry's future wife, weer both baptised at St mary's and admitted to membership in 1866, perhaps the were friends?

I have been told that St Mary's records are held at Norwich Records Office. I hope to go there in a week or two.

I wrote recently to Yorkshire Baptist Association regarding Bradford, but as yet have not received a reply.

In the weald of Kent there were quite a number of Strict Baptist churches, one kept records of births, one of marriages and another of Burials. The births also list the midwife, very often a man, rather strange for thgose days, I thought.

On another thread, LindaB has put a link to a site which has links to Free Australian newspapers on line.

A brilliant site. I searched for Plested which returned over 1,300 results, of the 10 on the first page several were about my "Miss Plested"

There is an long and interesting article about Miss Plested in The Queenslander Sat 25 Oct 1890 where she is quoted as saying "There are 930,626 widows in Inda, 78,906 were under 9 years of age.

I had read somewhere in the past that she considered herself to be a suffragette.

Sylvia,

You wrote:

"I did try to find J Holiday in Bradford ........... I could only find a Joseph, and he wasn't a Baptist Minister!"

Baptist ministers were some times full time farmers, blacksmiths, etc. I came across one in Norfolk who was a farmer and pastor of a baptist church for 50 years and never received a penny as stipend, He also travelled as a visiting preacher and speaker at conferences.

David

you are quite correct .......... but they did usually list on the census both the occupation and the fact that they were a minister.


At least, that has been my experience with both Baptist and other non-conformist religious types.

It wasn't illegal, so they had no reason to keep it quiet.


I'm not inexperienced at looking for people on censuses, or in dealing with non-conformist religious people. I really didn't need a lecture on the topic!


I refuse to give you that census entry because there is absolutely no evidence that Joseph Holiday was or could be the Rev J Holiday


I will not post anything that is not provable ............... I may mention what I have found, as I did Jospeh, but that is mainly as an alert to other helpers that this person has been found and probably is discountable.



If you don't like that, then don't ask for help!




sylvia

Has there been a misinterpretation of good intentions here? Sylvia has found and posted some good stuff, and as far as I can see David has read and considered it.

Sylvia, I don't think David was lecturing you, and he probably doesn't know how experienced you are, so perhaps thought he was helping you improve your knowledge.

I hope nobody gets upset here.

Sylvia, I am realyy upset that I have offended you, I had no intention of being ungrateful,

I useually look up the Ancestry census images, but my Ancestry ran out a week or so ago and I am looking for special offers to get back on.

The reason I am really interested to find some information as Baptist churches sometimes have records that are really usefule, for instance, My great grandmother was Elizabeth Louisa Grimes and was a member of St Mary's Baptist Church, Norwich. The receords give the following informatio about her.

Baptized and admitted to Membership, 26th Nov 1866. removed and transferred to Lowestoft Baptist Church (no date) then went to Hitchen {1881 census confirms this) returned to Norwich in 1880. (Presumably this was beacuse of the death of her mother who was also a member and according to the records died in 1880. She was readmitted to membership April 30th 1883, but removed 1Jan 19th 1885 resigned to join the Salvation Army.

What the records don't say is that on Christmas day 1874. she married my great grandfather, Henry A Plested in the same church, They had two sons Henry 1875 and Alfred 1878 and that Henry A died in 1878 leaving the two sons who in 1881 were in separate lodgings in Bull Close Road, Norwich, while Elizabeth was in Hitchin.

I do appeciate yout help
regatds

David

David

I'm sorry ....... I guess I was feeling a little tetchy when I first came on here, and took your message the wrong way.


But I honestly don't see how we can find out if Joseph was Rev J ................ I did try to find him on another census, but was not convinced that I had done so, and in any case the possible one also did not say he was a Baptist minister


so it would seem that trying to find Rev J Holiday is also a blind alley . unless you yourself have knowledge of a site listing Baptist ministers. I know of one that lists many ordained Methodists.


It could of course be Haliday/Halliday/Holliday!


I've just done a search for those spellings, and have found no-one listing himself as a Baptist minister or preacher.




sylvia

Sylvia,

Thank you.

I believe it was you that helped me greatly withe Elizabeth L Grimes two or three years ago, She married Ernest Palmer in 1889 had a son in 1890, Charles Kenneth Alexander Palmer and emigrated to Canada in 1902. Living at Huntsville Ont. Both Charles and Ernest joined the CEF, Charles coming to England then France. He was given compassionate discharge in 1919 due, I believe, to the illness of his father who was invalided out due to Pneumonia (probably flu) reattested for further treatment and then, probably died, The last I can find of the family was in 1920 When Charles married Marie Disirée Piret of Belgium. I have been sent a Belgian family tree with her family on it and also her Belgian birth cert. (On it her father is Pirez but signs Piret.)

I cannot find if they had any children, or if they visited England again. From family converstions, I beleive they may have done.