Genealogy Chat

I met a Lettice. She was a customer when I worked in a building society. Admittedly, she was ancient and it was 20 years ago.

As for Shank's pony, I guess it will, with time, drop out of common parlance as no one seems to walk anywhere (apart from those of us who never bothered to pass our test)

The words I'm always promoting are "Shall" and "Shan't" so much better than will and won't imho

Getting back to girls names. I know a Jasmine and another called Cinnamon

Aha, there's me being a North American. ;)


http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/shanks-mare.html

Shanks' mare

Meaning

One's legs, used as a means of transport.

Origin

Shanks' (or shanks's) mare (or nag or pony) derives from the name of the lower part of the leg between the knee and ankle - the shank, nowadays more often known as the shin-bone or tibia. This was alluded to in the early form of this term - shank's nag. This originated in Scotland in the 18th century. There are several early citations in Scottish literature, as here in Robert Fergusson's Poems on Various Subjects, 1774:

"He took shanks-naig, but fient may care."

When it crossed the Atlantic, the expression migrated into 'shank's mare', which remains the common form in the USA. It was first referred to there in the 1860s. This rather unfortunate prediction was made in the Iowa newspaper The Dubuque Daily Herald in May 1869:

"A public exhibition of the velocipede [a predecessor of the bicycle] was given on the streets last evening by Mr. Clark, who managed the vehicle with considerable skill... They are a toy, and will never come into general use in competition with Shank's mare."

In the UK and Australia the term is commonly 'shanks' pony'. It is sometimes capitalized as 'Shank's pony' as some reports claim it to have derived from an individual called Shanks, or from the Shanks & Company Ltd. (formed in 1853 and now absorbed into Armitage Shanks), who previously manufactured lawn-mowing machines. One such horse-drawn mower had no seat and the driver had to walk behind it. Examples of these machines still exist and this would be a plausible theory (albeit one lacking in any real evidence) if it weren't for the clear pre-dating of the Scottish references.

An alternative version of this allusory phrase is "the horse of ten toes".

;)


... Nothing at that site about assistant to Nunn & Sons. ;)

Hi Janey Cuz,
I haven't heard the expression "Shanks's Mare", but I have Shanks's pony i.e. to walk.

As in "I'm going by Shanks's pony".

SRS, take a look --

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7572&iid=LNDRG11_339_344-0021&fn=George&ln=Driver&st=d&ssrc=&pid=14688223

... I know, ew.

It's the annotation added by the statistician, as Maureen says, for counting workers in all categories of occupation. Or "none", as the case may be. ;)


Reece -- Basil didn't work because it was a girl. ;) True, though, in these days where people name their children after every naturally occurring or human-made object or event under the sun, it probably would not have attracted negative attention in the schoolyard the way it would have in my day in a Canadian schoolyard.

Think of all the kids named Mafeking c1900. I wonder how many Tsunamis there are about to start school these days?

... omg, I thought I was making that up. There are several in England ...

Janet is it because he lied about his occupation and they've just corrected it later? I've heard of that before.

Brian,

How about "Hello me Old Salad"??

Janey - my ancestor, Sage Job, was born in 1744 m. 1760!

Lettice Job b. 1806! All in Carms.

So what was wrong with Basil?

Reece

Nah, I don't like yours, Maureen. ;) It's entered as a genuine occupation, and as PigletsPal said, an assistant was a shop clerk basically. There are loads of assistants to drapers and whatnot in the censuses.

Search 1881 for
given name John
occupation Assistant (or Assistant to)

John Abbott is "Assistant in Ironmongery business", no annotation.
John F Atherton is "Assistant to Estate agent", no annotation.

Now granted, those describe the employer rather than naming it. Hmm. But there are some like John T Bailey, "Assistant to Head" where the head is an Earthenware Dealer, with no annotation. John Baker, "Assistant to his father" where the father is Post Master & Grocer is annotated Grocer ...

"No Occ" just seems a tad high-handed!


Brian! Hello, old fruit! Never heard that one myself, but happy to greet you. I'll bet you know what Shank's mare is. ;)


Maybe my explanation just occurs to me because of our movement to sabotage the 2006 Cdn census. The vile Conservative govt contracted the processing out to Diebold -- not just a US corporation getting access to all our personal info outside Canada, but Lockheed Martin, a particularly unpleasant US corporation! So we spilled coffee on our forms, wrote our names upside down, and like that, so the forms would have to be processed manually at much greater cost and Lockheed Martin might decide it wasn't worth the bother next time. ;)

http://www.vivelecanada.ca/content/page/7-census-boycott-action-timeline

Just a thought regarding Nunn and Sons.. The No Occ was probably written by the statistician afterwards. I'm thinking he wrote that because-well-there's no real occupation given,so he couldn't tally it up with any of the usual ones.
I imagine they were porters or something.

Although I do like your explanation better,Janey!!!!

Maureen

I wonder:
Do you greet someone with the name Lettuce/Lettice as "Hello Old Vegetable" rather than "Hello Old Fruit" ?

I'm sure it was a tv documentary I saw but can't remember the other things they mentioned. I remembered Lettuce because it was so unusual and it was definitely not a misspelling but the vegetable.

Hi PP - yes indeed, that's all true. What I'm still wondering is why the census official wrote in big bold letters "No Occ" across the four people who claimed to be "Assistant to Nunn & Sons"!

I'm thinking it's a Victorian expression that has been lost - much as "Shank's mare" pretty much has today. ;)

Reece - Sage! I was trying to remember, I knew there was another herb we'd come up with for my sister besides Basil. Knew it wasn't Oregano ... ;)

I think we also suggested that if it was a boy she could just call him Herb.

FreeBMD actually does return a few dozen Sages -- on a general search, so some would be the same persn, b, m and d.

The middle names, where there are, all seem to make them girls.

Umm....since when was the lettuce a national symbol - proud or otherwise - of Canada??? lol



~~~~ moves hastily out of the way ~~~~


Cx.

Lettice, yes! (I should have said that rather than Letitia at first.)

But Lettuce, that's a veg of another colour. ;)

I think when I retire and people ask me what I do (because hey, I look so young for my age, nobody will suspect I'm retired!), I'm going to start saying I'm an assistant to Nunn & Sons.


And now stop all this mocking of Canada's proud and honourable national symbol, eh?

Beaver blower..........ha ha...........that'll keep me going all day!!

Have a look at LETTICE KNOLLYS - Countess of Essex and Leicester

b. c1539.

I have a Lettice ? somewhere in my tree from the West Country.

I also have a Sage Job and have never seen the name Sage on another

tree. Has anyone else?

Reece

Back in 2005 there was a thread on beaver blower as an occupation.
The original thread has since gone.

I remember this name going back yonks (but then, I am older than you JC!) It was usually shortened to 'Letty'.

I googled for clarity:

Lettice.
Joy, gladness. It appeared in the form Lettice in medieval England. It is a rarely used today, and if chosen, would be in the latinized form "Letitia" rather than "Lettice" (perhaps also due to its similarity to the name of a vegetable).

I hasten to add that I do not recall medieval times! lol


Cx.

For some reason I know that Lettuce was a common name given by the Victorians. I may have read it but I may have seen it on a documentary on television.