Genealogy Chat

Was Jennie a spinster on her marriage certificate?

Maryb

I've traced the likely Robert Hall, coal miner, with father William, usually a labourer at the gas works, who has a brother Henry 4 years younger, and no mention of any connection with Tedstones or Bradfords 1891.

Here's the marriage of Henry Hall and Martha Halstead:

Marriages Mar 1899 (>99%)
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Hall Henry Haslingden 8e 239
Halstead Martha Haslingden 8e 239

In between wrapping presents (somebody mentioned Christmas!), I recalled seeing a John Bradford somewhere who was a stone mason. I can't find him now.

Jennie says she was born in Ruabon, Denbighshire. I can't find such a person. The one found earlier with a Welsh name that could have been Welsh for Jennie, and was in South Wales, didn't have a father called John. I am totally stuck with finding Jennie before marriage.

I now wonder if it was not Jennie who was a relative of Jessie, but her husband Robert Hall. I bet there's a lot of them about!

Hi, yes her name is spelt Jennie and there is no middle name.

Marian also tells me that John Bradford decd was a stone mason on the marriage cert.

Do people think he would have changed job from being a coal miner to a stone mason in less than 7 years and aged over 60 (if he is the John married to Letitia in 1891)?

Marian, is her name spelt Jennie? Any middle name?

Hi, just got the post with Jennie Bradford's marriage cert. Married 12th November 1898 Robert Hall was 30yrs coal miner lived 16 Malt Street Accrington, father William Hall general labourer. Jennie Bradford 22yrs, domestic servant, lived at same address as above, father John Bradford (deceased), witnesses were Henry Hall and Martha Halstead.

In 1911, Jessie Ledstone is a Horn Button Worker Polisher.

Marian tells me she has sent for Jennie Bradford's marriage cert.

Might give us further information.

Margaret

Hi, I'm sure that the Jessie Tedstone born 1892 Stourbridge is the right one, because she told me that she worked in a Button Factory. I found a James Grove & Sons Ltd button factory which was founded in 1850, Halesowen and was recently demolished for redevelopment.

This looks like Mary Jane and brother Thomas in 1891, but she is known as Mary:

1891 England Census
about Mary Bradford
Name: Mary Bradford
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1870
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Female
Where born: Lye Stresbridge, Worcestershire, England

Civil parish: Wolverhampton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Wolverhampton
Sub-registration district: Wolverhampton Eastern
ED, institution, or vessel: 29
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Daniel Lippet 30
Harriett Lippet 30
Sarah Lippet 6
Eliza Lippet 6/12
Joseh Wedge 29
Thomas Bradford 25
Mary Bradford 21

One of two things could be the next move. Either get the marriage cert of Mary Jane to Thomas Tedstone who presumably will be a glass cutter at that point, and her father should be John Bradford, coal miner; or get the marriage cert of Jennie Bradford to Robert Hall. If that shows her father as John Bradford, coal miner, then we know lies have been told about her not being a blood relation. You can order this one from lancashirebmd - if you specify that the father should be John Bradford and it isn't, it will cost you nothing - but you might want it anyway to see who her father is.

The possible second marriage of Mary Jane Tedstone is to Charles Vale.

But if she called herself Jane, there is this possible death:

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about Jane Tedstone
Name: Jane Tedstone
Death Registration Month/Year: 1949
Age at death (estimated): 80
Registration district: Bromsgrove
Inferred County: Worcestershire
Volume: 9d
Page: 26

Jennie's census entries seem consistent that she was born in Ruabon in Denbighshire (some distance from Stourbridge).

I think (but can't remember) that someone tried to locate her on earlier census returns but found no records.

If she is no blood relative, was her marriage to Mr Hall a second marriage, so that her first marriage was to a Mr Bradford? I can't remember whether anyone said they had seen the Hall marriage certificate or not.

Hi, now my cousin, who I am only in contact with through email, has said she remembers Jennie Hall, who was referred to as Grandma Hall, when she asked if she was her grandmother too, was told quite abruptly no she is no blood relative. She thinks the family were trying to cover something up but, even though the similarity in looks are uncanny between Jessie and Jennie and that her maiden name was the same as Jessie's mothers, it could be a concidence and that she was indeed not a blood relative. Thought I'd better let you know, see what you think. I don't know what to make of it, I do think though too that some porkies have been told somewhere down the line, which makes things very difficult. Marian

This is what Marion has sent to me.
Jessies birth cert says. born 19th Sept 1892 in Maughan St Quarry Bank. Father Thomas occ glass cutter. Mother Jane Tedstone formerly Bradford
The person who registered the birth J Tedstone mother.Maughan St


Jessie was told her mother died at birth but this might be a lie if this birth cert is correct. Remembering Jessies death reg has her birth as 28th Sept. Where is her father Thomas death if he died when she was young too.?

I think there has been a few porkies told somewhere.

Do you think Mary Jane/Jane may have remarried after being widowed ?


Marriages Dec 1896 (>99%)
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BURGOYNE William Henry Kington 6a 1095
Jones Alice Kington 6a 1095
Tedstone Mary Jane Kington 6a 1095
Vale Charles Kington 6a 1095



Nicky

Marian please just confirm that the certificate says the mother is Jane (not Mary Jane), and her maiden name is Bradford.

Her mother might have died in childbirth with a later child, who presumably also died.

I was hoping to find a household with Mary Jane 1871, Annie 1874 and Jennie 1876 - but there ain't one. In fact no Jennie in sight until 1901.

I can't find (Mary) Jane Bradford in 1891.

Here's the marriage of John and Letitia:

Marriages Jun 1854 (>99%)
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Bradford John Dudley 6c 92
Clifton Mary Dudley 6c 92
Morgan Letitia Dudley 6c 92
Price Richard Dudley 6c 92

1881 census
Perhaps this is ANNIE

James Lilley 1832 Dudley occ nail maker
Lydia wife 1831 Sedgley
Mary Ann dau 1852 Rowley Regis
Rachael Rollinson married dau 1857Rowley Regis
Alice dau 1857 Rowley Regis
James son 1864 Rowley Regis occ wheelwright
ANNIE BRADFORD visitor 1874 Rowley Regis

address 23 Beet St Rowley Regis

The 1881 census is the same family as I posted for 1891 containing Annie Bradford.


1881 England Census
about John Bradford
Name: John Bradford
Age: 48
Estimated birth year: abt 1833
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Tisha
Gender: Male
Where born: Woodside, Worcestershire, England

Civil parish: Kingswinford
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street Address: Maughan Street
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Miner

Registration district: Stourbridge
Sub-registration district: Kingswinford
ED, institution, or vessel: 45
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
John Bradford 48
Tisha Bradford 45 should be Letitia
Thos. Bradford 14
Samuel Bradford 12
Mary Jane Bradford 10
Hannah Bradford 6


1891 England Census
about John Bradford
Name: John Bradford
Age: 60
Estimated birth year: abt 1831
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Letitia
Gender: Male
Where born: Oldbury, Cheshire, England

Civil parish: Kingswinford
Ecclesiastical parish: Quarry Bank
Town: Quarry Bank
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street Address: Maughan St


Registration district: Stourbridge
Sub-registration district: Kingswinford
ED, institution, or vessel: 45
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
John Bradford 60
Letitia Bradford 36 should be 56
Annie Bradford 16
Hannah Bradford 15
Annie Bradford 8 grandaughter

Annie didn't appear to be with them in 1881.

Chrisine

Strange about the dates of birth being different. However Marion has said the birth cert is signed by J Tedstone mother and the address is Maughan St Quarry Bank Kingswinsford

1881 census
Mary Jane Bradford 1871 Rowley is living in Maughan St. with her parents

The child being 'told' that the mother had died in childbirth doesn't mean that it is true.............

I don't see any major problem with a change of occupation for the father. There could have been any number of reasons why a man would change employment in the space of 20+ years.

Marian

Birth certs are not required when registering a death - I registered my husband's in August, so I have personal knowledge of the procedure.