Genealogy Chat

Im struggling with research on one of my Maternal ancestors
2 of my relatives have good jobs in 1861 one is a book keeper in a mill and one is a mill manger in Oldham
however when i try to search for them in the next census any one under their name are either weavers or minders in the mills
would this be usual I know there was the cotton famine in the early 60's but would you go from a manger to a weaver ?
would be gratful for your thoughts
Thankyou

Sorry for the delay
the 1861 census
royton rd oldham Below Town
John Butterworth 1793
Elen Butterworth 1793
William 1827 Book keeper ( hes living at Ashworth St)
Hannah Butterworth daughter roller coverer
James Butterworth son
Manager cotton mill
Mary Butterworth daughter 1839
roller coverer
Martha Butterworth
daughter cotton reeler

William is still a manager in 1881

1881 England Census
about William Butterworth
Name: William Butterworth
Age: 54
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1827
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Royton, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Oldham
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 91 Union St West
Condition as to marriage: Widow
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Cotton Mill Manager

Registration district: Oldham
Sub-registration district: Oldham Below Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 48
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Sarah A. Butterworth 45
Ann E. Butterworth 23
John W. Butterworth 22
Mary Butterworth 20
James S. Butterworth 18
Mary Butterworth 59
William Butterworth 54


Christine

For clearer info:-

1861 census transcription details for: Ashworth Street, Oldham
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG09 Piece: 3010 Folio: 13 Page: 20

Reg. District: Oldham Sub District: 1 Oldham-Below-Town
Parish: Oldham Enum. District: 14
Ecclesiastical District: St Peters City/Municipal Borough: Oldham
Address: Ashworth Street, Oldham
County: Lancashire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation ,
Disability Where Born
BUTTERWORTH, William Head Unmarried M 34 1827 Book Keeper
Hayton
Lancashire
BUTTERWORTH, George Brother Unmarried M 31 1830 Cotton Weaver
Hayton
Lancashire
BUTTERWORTH, Mary Sister Unmarried F 39 1822 House Keeper
Hayton
Lancashire
BUTTERWORTH, Ann Ellen Niece F 3 1858 Scholar
Oldham
Lancashire

Thanks for that , sorry I had to go away as grandaughter has arrived will have a good look now

Ive gone through every possible variation of the marriages and there was 39 we narrowed it down to 2 a Ann Lees and a Hannah howarth but still have problems with them
Ann is a lot younger than James and he turns up in 1891 with 5 children 2 born in america so cant figure out the conection !!!
as 3 the children have 2 surnames all different one is Samuel Schofield Butterworth william Mayall Butterworth Mary Lees Butterworth

If this is James in 1881, age a bit out but eldest 2 children born USA it's possible that this is his 2nd marriage as there is a big difference in childrens ages.

You probably need to get the birth cert of Mary L to find Ann's maiden name.

Births Mar 1880 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BUTTERWORTH Mary Lees Rochdale 8e 65


1881 England Census
about James Butterworth
Name: James Butterworth
Age: 41
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ann L.
Gender: Male
Where born: Oldham, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Wardleworth
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 36 Elliott St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Eyelet Maker Employing 5 Men 9 Boys

Registration district: Rochdale
Sub-registration district: Wardleworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
James Butterworth 41
Ann L. Butterworth 30
Samuel Butterworth 14
William Butterworth 11
Mary L. Butterworth 1

1891 mistranscribed


1891 England Census
about James Butlerwatl
Name: James Butlerwatl
Age: 51
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ann Less
Gender: Male
Where born: Oldham, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Wardleworth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Rochdale
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Stre

Registration district: Rochdale
Sub-registration district: Wardleworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
James Butlerwatl 51
Ann Less Butlerwatl 40
Samuel Schofield Butlerwatl 24
William Mayell Butlerwatl 21
Mary Lees Butlerwatl 11
James Thomas Butlerwatl 9
Harold Edward Butlerwatl 2
Annie Butlerwatl 18

Possible marriage


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

Marriages Mar 1879 (>99%)


BUTTERWORTH James Oldham 8d 689
Mayall Ann Lees Oldham 8d 689

Christine

just wanted to say thank you to you all for the help

I'm v confused here Jacqueline

there are 2 census listings for 1861 on this post

one has William bricklayer/bookkeeper b1827 living with parents John & Ellen sister Mary b1839 etc in Royton Rd all born in Royton

the other has William book keeper b 1827 living with Mary b1822 etc in Ashworth St - all born Hayton (Huyton? which is nr Liverpool)

this seems to be a mixture of the information you have given

There are just so many Butterworths in that area of Lancs ( I have one in my tree - a James & Mary - there were 2 married in the same yr in the same church same ages!!)

perhaps we need to go forward a generation. Could you please help us by giving the name etc of the ancestor in that generation which led you to James? If they were born in Oldham it is often relatively simple to go back generations as the mother's maiden name is always listed on Lancashire bmd site.

Hi
The one that has him as a book keeper is the right one its when we go forward that I have a bit of a problem its the job change I cant find a James that is a book keeper but can find one who is an eyelet manufactor its in 1881 but cant find him in 1871
wolud you go from a book keeper to a eyelet manufacturer?

have to go to bed cant keep my eyes open thanks for all of your help
Jackey

Jackey, what lancashireann is saying is both Williams are book keepers, both are in Oldham. How do you know which one is yours?

1861 census transcription details for: Ashworth Street, Oldham
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG09 Piece: 3010 Folio: 13 Page: 20

Reg. District: Oldham Sub District: 1 Oldham-Below-Town
Parish: Oldham Enum. District: 14
Ecclesiastical District: St Peters City/Municipal Borough: Oldham
Address: Ashworth Street, Oldham
County: Lancashire
>>>>>>>BUTTERWORTH, William Head Unmarried M 34 1827 Book Keeper; Hayton, Lancashire
BUTTERWORTH, George Brother Unmarried M 31 1830 Cotton Weaver; Hayton, Lancashire
BUTTERWORTH, Mary Sister Unmarried F 39 1822 House Keeper; Hayton, Lancashire
BUTTERWORTH, Ann Ellen Niece F 3 1858 Scholar; Oldham, Lancashire



1861 census transcription details for: Royton Road, Oldham
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG09 Piece: 3013 Folio: 62 Page: 37

Reg. District: Oldham Sub District: 1 Oldham-Below-Town
Parish: Oldham Enum. District: 29
Ecclesiastical District: Holy Trinity City/Municipal Borough: Oldham
Address: Royton Road, Oldham
County: Lancashire
BETTESWORTH, John Head Married M 68 1793 Gentleman; Royton, Lancashire
BETTESWORTH, Ellen Wife Married F 68 1793; Waldershare, Lancashire
>>>>>BETTESWORTH, William Son Unmarried M 34 1827 Bricklayer Cotton Mill; Oldham, Lancashire [should be book keeper]
BETTESWORTH, Hannah Daughter Unmarried F 29 1832 Roller Coverer; Oldham, Lancashire
BETTESWORTH, James Son Unmarried M 24 1837 Manager Cotton Mill; Oldham, Lancashire
BETTESWORTH, Mary Daughter F 22 1839 Roller Coverer; Oldham, Lancashire
BETTESWORTH, Martha J Daughter Unmarried F 26 1835 Roller Coverer; Oldham, Lancashire

Hi
John and Ellen are his parents they are my 3xGreatgrandparents we have been double checking what happened to all their children my 3x great aunt and uncles ,and their children with so many of the same name it is hard to figure out whos who !
we seem to loose some of them in 1881
But Im enjoying the challenge
thnakyou again for the time you all take to help and give advice to us new to this it is invaluable
Jackey

Hi Jackey

so the William is Ashworth St that you mentioned in your post is NOT your William as John & Ellen were in Royton St. Just trying to get it straight in my head.

What was the name of your gt grandparents & your 2xgt grandparents please so that I can perhaps follow it through using baptisms. At the moment I cannot find any of the baptisms and wondered if an earlier generation would give a clue. There is quite a bit online and at the Lancs record office for the area.

No we think William, was visiting them at the time
grt grt grandparents were called Lawrence and Eliza Butterworth
grt grandparents were William and Eliza butterworth all from Oldham
sorry for any delay in posting I have my Grandaughter today

I think between us there will be a few delays today. I have my grandchildren here visiting as well but they have just gone out for a while with parents so peace reigns at the moment.

I think they may have affected my brain too! Who was William visiting at the time and do you have rough dates for gt gt & gt grandparents please. Sorry to keep asking questions but having difficulty finding the right ones.

I'm taking a guess here but is this your grandfather's family? All mother's maiden name Barlow

1860 BUTTERWORTH Hannah

1863 BUTTERWORTH William

1866 BUTTERWORTH Ada

1867 BUTTERWORTH John

1869 BUTTERWORTH Ernest Jones

1871 BUTTERWORTH Walter

1876 BUTTERWORTH Eliza Ellen

and gt gt grandparents marriage

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1860
BUTTERWORTH Lawrence
BARLOW Eliza
Prestwich, St.Mary

Having trouble posting my last one didnt come up ?My typing is jumping all over the place
My Grandfathers parents where called
William and Eliza

But you have come up with a gem for my grt Grandparents I had been looking for a marriage in Oldham never thought about putting Prestwich in thanks so much
Jackey

I am assuming that your from Lancashire Ann?
Me to originally