Genealogy Chat

Hi
I'm having problems finding my grandfather's birth certificate because of his year of birth:
on his headstone, he died in 1954 aged 71 (YoB 1883);
on his marriage cert (1912) his age is given as 26 (YoB 1886).
The ages on the census records differ, too, with YoB given as 1882 and 1883
Because of this, I'm having great problems finding his birth certificate.
Any suggestions?

Have you looked for the birth on

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com

Do you have his marriage cert? What is his fathers name and occupation?
Death information is only as reliable as the informant knew it to be..

The census can be out by a year

His age is more likely to be correct on the earliest census he is on (which would probably be the 1891 census).

Death certificates and marriage certificates often have the wrong age on them and headstones are no better. My grandmother's headstone has her age out by 2 years, her marriage certificate has her age out by 5 years - and I know I have the right marriage certificate as it is the original.

What is your grandfather's name and what is his father's name from the marriage certificate?

Kath. x

Thanks for all the info, I'd been working on the principle that the headstone and marriage certificate were the bedrock of my search!

Yes, I've looked on Roots BMD and have made a spreadsheet of all the Henry Charles Banks born in the Hackney/Bethnal Green area (3) and guess what? There isn't one for 1883 (age given at 1891 census). There's one for Dec 1885 (Camberwell) and one for Sept 1889 (Fulham).

His marriage certificate gives his father as William Banks, a shoemaker. I've found him, he's married to Mary Ann with a whole string of children which ties in with what my Uncle has told me. My grandfather left home and moved to south Wales in 1901 (he was on both census - the London one has changed his birthplace from Hackney to Llandudno in Wales, but he is also on the 1901 Wales census, this ties in with family history as well.)

Back to the drawing board, then. Any more hints would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your help.

Can you put down the date of death and the date of the marriage. Depending on when his birthday fell you need to allow a two year span ...

Jill

Hi,
what about
Births Jun 1887 (>99%)
Banks Henry Charles Islington 1b 323

Gary

Yes, thanks for all that, I shall resume my searching. I've got a few Henry Charles on my spreadsheet who are within the 1882-1886 range but was hoping to find one for Hackney, which has been his place of birth throughout.

The marriage cert states 1886, the headstone 1883 so I shall just persevere. Were any details lost in the London blitz?

he may have been born on the border of Hackney & Bethnal Green or Hackney & Islington so may put Hackney as place of birth but may have been registered in neighbouring borough, just a thought. good luck with your searches.
Gary

I know the first names are round the wrong way but I've had a few ancestors do this.

Births Jun 1883
Banks Charles Henry Mile End 1c 504

Can you post the 1881,1891 census for the family?

I'm surprised his middle name is Charles because he has a brother with that name.

Rose

1881 Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
William BANKS Head M Male 32 Bethnal Green, Middlesex, England Boot Rivetter
Mary A. BANKS Wife M Female 33 Camberwell, Middlesex, England
William BANKS Son Male 6 Kingsland, Middlesex, England
Fredrick BANKS Son Male 5 Hackney, Middlesex, England
Charles BANKS Son Male 2 Hackney, Middlesex, England
Philip BANKS Son Male 1 Hackney, Middlesex, England

Source Information:
Dwelling 24 Hedgers Grove
Census Place London, Middlesex, England
Family History Library Film 1341068
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0315 / 90
Page Number 18

Rose

Have you found any of the other children? Is this Phillip?

Births Mar 1880
BANKS Philip John Bethnal Green 1c 194

For ref.

1891 England Census
about Henry Banks
Name: Henry Banks
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Mary Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Hackney, London, England

Civil Parish: Hackney
Ecclesiastical parish: Dalston Holy Trinity
Town: Hackney
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Hackney
Sub registration district: West Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Banks 42
Mary Ann Banks 47
William Banks 17
Fred K Banks 15
Charles Banks 12
Phillip Banks 11
Henry Banks 8
Edward Banks 4
Albert Banks 3
Arthur Banks 1

1901 England Census
about Henry Banks
Name: Henry Banks
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William J
Mother's Name: Mary A
Gender: Male
Where born: Llandudno, Wiltshire, England

Civil Parish: Tottenham
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England


Registration district: Edmonton
Sub registration district: Tottenham
ED, institution, or vessel: 61
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 264
Household Members: Name Age
William J Banks 50
Mary A Banks 53
William J Banks 25
Frederick Banks 23
Charles Banks 22
Philip Banks 21
Henry Banks 19
Edward Banks 16
Albert Banks 14
Arthur Banks 12

The image definitely says Wales Llandudno and none of the other children born there.

I wonder if he wasn't a natural child of this family as you said he went to live in Wales after 1901.

I don't see him on the 1901 Wales census although you said he was on both.

Christine

Have you found his parents marriage?

Oh, where do I start??? :)

1) I have the parents marriage certificate - Wm Banks (33) and Mary Ann Cobb (25), Church of St Matthew, Newington BUT this may be the wrong marriage as there is another Wm Banks who married Mary Ann Ridout in the same year. This is another ongoing research project.

2) Yes, Phillip (born 1880) is Henry's brother. I sent for the certificate and discovered the Mary Ann mixup (see (1) above).

3) Re the 1901 Census, Henry is on the London 1901 census but his birthplace is put as Llandudno, Wales. The 1891 has Hackney as his birthplace (Henry aged 8).

4) Re the 1901 Wales Census - he was noted as agricultural groom in the profession/occupation, which ties in with family history. Hey, I think I have a Eureka moment, his name is down as Bankes, maybe I should look his birth up with that spelling. Now, I've not posted details before, so I hope this is correct:

Name: Henry Bankes
Age in 1901: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: London, England
Civil Parish: Llangadock
Ecclesiastical parish: St Cadog and David
County/Island: Carmarthenshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Llandovery
Sub registration district: Llangadock
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 9

I am overwhelmed by all your help, thank you so much! This has been one of the most helpful and friendly forums I've ever been on.

So Philip's mother is listed as Mary Ann Ridout but you have a marriage cert for Mary Ann Cobb?

Rose

I had a look for his WW1 records but I'm not seeing any obvious ones.

I'm assuming he served because no children were born during the war.

Rose

Jen.
The census information isnt making sense. You have the marriage of William Banks and Mary Ann Cobb age 33 and 25.

This was 1874 dec qt St Saviour Southwark. The ages for William and Mary Ann are not matching.
On the same reg page in 1874 is Ada Cobb.
Have you looked for the 2 together on earlier census to check for Mary Ann Cobbs age.. It could be you are mixing up the 2 Mary Anns.
It could also be you are mixing up the 2 census for William Banks/Mary Ann