Genealogy Chat

I went to the WDYTYA exhibition , and asked the Jewish Genealogical society ( www.jgsgb.org.uk for anyone looking ) about the Star of David , that I had handed down to me , supposedly from the Grt grt gran ?
When they saw it , said it was in fact a pentangle, yes I know I should have had my glasses on.
Talk about Who Did You Think You Were !!!I went in as a Jewess, came out a Witch.

My family do try hide the existence of some relatives for obvious reasons.

Prior to our earliest traceable line of distinguished agricultural labourers was Throgg the Dung Digger, a cousin some 153 times removed. Why he fell on hard times is not certain as he was a direct descendant of Pharoah Throgg. He was the mightiest of all the Pharoahs but as his hidden pyramid had never been found, very little is known in the modern world about him.

But that's another story...........

Michael

I have enjoyed this thread and chuckled all the way through it.
Nearly as good as the "Ten commandments" of family history we had a year or so back.
I think 80% of families are related to Gentry in some way according to myth, as most people I have spoken to has rellies from the late 1800 early 1900 that was a servant girl for Lord so and so , and the son or the lord himself has had their wicked way with them and a child is the result.
I "have" two lords one on each side of the family LOL
I DO have gypsies on the other side of the family, proved as well.
I just dont know what country they came from in the 1700's
Every one has been told the tale of being related to Royalty, or a famous person with the same surname.
My mum was told we are related to General Wolfe, yet to be proven. I have just 50 years to go back.......

Another great grandmother was from the Dixon family from Wantage who ran most of the pubs in and around the market place.Also had smallholdings in and around Wantage.
My great great grandfather John Dixon ran the Falcon in which has a blue plaque on it. (Its is now the HSBC) Its a beautiful building above the plate glass window, its a shame that HSBC wasnt forced to keep the lead lighted windows and kept in keeping with the rest of the building.
Having spent most of the day in Wantage and local library, a very proud person, that I came from such an illustriuoous family, until I read a snippet from quotes from the local paper of the time and council minutes, that the falcon,was a Den of inequity with bawdy going ons and should be curbed asap
I howled,I had visions of Oliver Twist and the Scarlet pimpernel all rolled into one.
Because of the reputation is one of the main reasons I think the Local council bought the Pub to change the building into the local Town Hall
The existing Town Hall was in the centre of the market place and they pulled it down to make way for the Statue of Alfred the Great.
I also hasten to add any money that was to be inherited went to the Male heirs as any land, property or any Capital had to stay in the family and the female side just got a annual allowance.
So my family ended up poor.
Sigh, never mind we can all dream cant we.
Keep these myths coming its fascinating., and amzing we all have the same myths.

Well ............my late in-laws told my OH and myself a pack of lies about his father.

They always said that OH's father was an only child and was orphaned at the age of 12. So we accepted this of course, who wouldn't!

When I started to trace F-i-L's family tree I soon discoverd that his father died in 1936, just a few years before F-i-L married!

However, trying to find when his mother died was proving to be a bit of a problem. If F-i-L was 'orphaned' at the age of 12 then we thought his mother must have died about 1924. Wrong! She died in 1961!

I then discovered that there could possible have been an elder sister of my F-in-L. (He was born 1912.)

Sure enough when the birth certificate (1901) came..she had the same parents!

I managed to trace her marriage certificate and discovered she had 3 sons. One had died but I managed to locate the home address on one who was in his early 80's after somebody did a look up on the Electoral Roll.

So my husband had a grandmother, an aunty and 3 cousins that he never knew! He was never interested in genealogy but was gutted to know this as was I.

I wrote to the cousin on the electoral rolll and he phoned me up when he got my letter. A few months later we went down to Dorset to meet him, his wife and his survinging brother & wife.

They were so thrilled to meet us and said that they had alway wondered what had happened to their uncle Jack (my F-in-L).

It turns out that they never knew their grandmother either although they remember an 'older relation' visiting them when they were small.

They knew their Grandfather very well and he never mentiond his wife so they too assumed that she had died not long after their mother was born.

We can only assume that they had split up and went their seperate ways, but why lie about it?

It's very sad that 3 cousins and my OH have missed out on knowing their respective immediate relatives.

I'm just so glad that we have found the 2 surving cousins now. Better late than never!

They also gave us some lovely photo's of F-in-L's father, uncle and sister
which we would never have seen if I had not written my letter as in-laws had nothing in their photos relating to F-i-L's family.

.

Hiya

Thanks. I did already know this although only within the last couple of years. I am the daughter of the daughter of a Jewish daughter so technically I, my daughters and grandaughter are seen as Jewish by Jews.

Still trying to get my head around it I have to say and still have lots to learn. Looking forward to finding some my Jewish cousins of which I know there are lots.

I just have to revert the thread to its tangent to add: now we have the proof that Ann of GG and I are related!

She is descended from Oliver Cromwell ... and I am descended from the General responsible for the Restoration!

Hi, Dokata. Yes, yes, yes. I love your imagery, and it is ringing a peal of bells. Thank you so much. I'm so sure that this the answer to my family dilemma! I could kiss you. And if it is so, the lady in question would have been the wife of a gr.gr. Uncle, or thereabouts, rather than a gr. gr. Grandmother and, perhaps, afterall, I didn't inherit my red hair from her , but from somewhere else.

Sephardic Jews, and others, in Spain were given the chance to convert, weren't they? and many appeared to do so, whilst remaining essentially Jewish.

Thank you so much for providing this clue for me.

Dear PollyS, as Jewish families have always been expected to marry only into Jewish families (although things are much more lenient, these days). This has always been such a strict rule of blood and faith that anyone not doing so, and renouncing their faith, could, completely destroy a Jewish family. It could, by the same token, also cause enormous difficulties within Christian families with Jewish connections. This is all historical stuff, may seem strange in this day and age and has nothing to do with being politically correct. Sorry I can't explain it better.

>>>I have always wanted to find that we truly did have a Jewish family connection, but very dear Jewish friends of mine have explained to me what that might have meant for everyone.<<<

I am intrigued as to what that means. I know nothing of the jewish faith other than what I have read. My grandmother never mentioned her faith to me.

Meriwether,
That is strange, because one of the GR 'cousins' said that my Sophia was apparently a Spanish Jewess, so I had the exciting vision of the Spanish Inquisition (looking like Monty Python ) throwing the family out of Spain, + them settling in Exeter + setting up a Sephardi Community !
The truth will out in the end.....

Hi, Dakota. Not the same rellies, I fear, but I am intrigued by the name Sophia as, perhaps, having been given to a Jewish lady. In our tree (all from Susses) there is a lady whose name seems to have been given to the enumerator as 'Sophiah'. Of course, Sophia is a name of Greek origin, meaning wisdom. Sophiah doesn't make so much sense to me. Additionally, apart from her eldest child, John, (she seems to have been a widow, or unmarried) the rest of the children are all listed by initials only. I am wondering if the enumerator couldn,t understand what she was telling him. Or what? Mystery.

Truth to say, there is another legend in our family that says there is an Italian connection, which this one may be. No indication on the Census form that this lady, Sophiah, was born outside of the UK, though. But the first Census (1841) may be unreliable, in thus respect.

Thank you for sharing your very intersting family history with me. Of course, in those days, for a Jewish person to marry out of the faith could cause devastation all round. I have always wanted to find that we truly did have a Jewish family connection, but very dear Jewish friends of mine have explained to me what that might have meant for everyone.

Happy onward hunting.

Hi

My grandmother was jewish and married outside the faith and was indeed disowned by her father. He killed himself weeks after his daughter's wedding although we are not sure that the marriage was the cause. Although my grandmother did keep in touch with her mother and siblings my mother can't remember her father ever visiting the jewish relatives. My grandfather was such a darling, I can only think he wasn't welcome because of the marriage.

I used to think this story was strange because my great grandfather himself married an Irish woman. However, that bit is the bit that incorrect, before my grandmother, the line is jewish through and through.

Hi Meriweather
The Jewish story is.... Sophia Newton b1819married Robert Tucker b1826
no fathers names or occupations on marriage cert 1845 Langtree Devon
had they been dissowned ?
that made her Sophia Tucker, (if you are old enough to remember the singer?well it wasn't my Sophia, but perhaps that is where the story came from.
Anyway the nearest I have got is she was born nearly next door to the synagogue in Exeter.... any relation ??

Hey, Dakota, you aren't related to me, are you? cos we have this same story in our family. Nor can I find any evidence for it, tho' my mum was adamant. She had been told by a great aunt Freda, whoever she may have been!

Big mystery.

Our Family story ,is that Grt grt Grandma was a jewess ,+ married out of the faith, causing big scandal.
Have written to 2 eigth cousins on GR + they both had the same story.
I can't find any truth in it yet......... but watch this space !

I and all my cousins were told that we descend from Oliver Cromwell!!! there may well be some truth in this somewhere along the way as he did have connections with this area of Cardiff plus the name Williams featured somewhere in his life so he has always been referred to as Uncle Ollie!!!!!

Somewhere in my mum's family is an Indian prince or Rajah.....still searching for him. No connection so far to India at all. Plenty of ag labs on my dad's side, makes you wonder what the Indian prince would feel about one of his descendants marrying a common ag lab's descendant!

Still family stories are great fun as long as you don't take them as gospel as I think we are the first generation who can really start sorting fact from fiction, and I feel really priviledged to be able to do so.

Liz

Certainly in the 1890's it was unlawful to marry the sister of your deceased wife.

This did not change until The Deceased Wife's Sister's Marriage Act 1907 passed into law.

Despite being unlawful it certainly went on. My grandfather's mother was a second wife. Her oldest sister had died and she came along and looked after her sister's children .... and her husband!

Pete

Hi,

it's funny how the older generation prefer to believe family stories than actual documented proof isn't it?

My mum spent months arguing with me that I had found the wrong family on the 1901 census because the place of birth given for my grandad was about three miles away from where he told her it was. Even when his birth certificate arrived with his exact birthdate on it she still insisted it was the wrong person. It took me months to track down his death certificate because his name had been mistranscribed on the index but it was only when the cert finally arrived and confirmed the place of birth as the same as the census and the name of the informant was her sister did she concede. lol.

I know to tread carefully when passing documents on now however I have found this out the hard way. My mums cousin has been researching her family for several years and always believed that her grandparents had married in an abbey but during my research I found their marriage registration and duly ordered the cert. The cert gives the place of marriage as the local register office. Mums cousin asked if she could have a copy of the cert which mum sent her and sadly her cousin hasn't spoken to her since. I feel awful. I really didn't mean to offend anybody. I was just sharing my findings with other family members or so I thought.

Caz x

Hi,
i was led to believe that my Great Nan's mum and Dad on my mum's side came from Northern Ireland and that Nanny had gypsy in her,well her dad's line came from Cambridgshire and her mothers mother came from Cork!
No trace as yet of the gypsies.
My mum still won't believe me,because someone in her youth told the tale!

Blue12

Wasted over a year searching the wrong records as a result of family "knowledge" that my g grandfather was born in Ireland but moved to Birmingham.

Mistranscriptions meant it took some time to track him down. He moved to Birmingham from the Cumbrian Fells. His mother in law came from Ireland.