Genealogy Chat

I can find this family in most of the census' but I am struggling to find their birth or marriage references - can anyone help please?

Lucy Cain b c 1894
Lizze (or Elizabeth) Cain b c 1890
Margaret b 1888
Ann b 1887
Elizabeth b 1886
Thomas 1880

As far as I know, I'd expect these births to have been registered in the St Helens area.

Any help/suggestions are welcome.

Kind regards

Rachel

Rachel have you found them in the 1901 census or before, if you post details it will be easier to find them for you, ie where they where living at time of census.

Pat.

Hi,

Here are some of them in the 1881 census:

Michael Cain 30
Mary Cain 23
Mary Ellen Cain 3
Thomas Cain 1
Martin Connolly 43
Catherine Connolly 20


Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 3925; Folio: 15; Page: 24; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341937.

I thought that as Thomas was 1 yr old here that his birth reference would be easy to find.

Regards

Rachel

St Helen's is Prescot district.

The family you list is in Chorlton.

Rose

Marriages Dec 1877
CAIN Michael Chorlton 8c 1080
CONNOLLY Mary Chorlton 8c 1080

Rose

I see, but I have also found some of them in the 1901 census:

Name: Barthlomey Cain
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Relation: Brother
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil Parish: St Helen
Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Evangelist
Town: St Helen
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Prescot
Sub registration district: St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 123
Household Members: Name Age
Barthlomey Cain 12 b Ireland
Elizabeth Cain 15 b St Helens
Mary Ellen Cain 23 b St Helens

Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 3522; Folio: 161; Page: 27.

On this census, both Elizabeth and Mary Ellen were born in St Helens, and Bartholomew in Ireland, yet on other census' Elizabeth and Mary Ellen appear born in Manchester. I am not sure which census information is right - any suggestions please?

Births Mar 1878
Caine Mary Ellen Chorlton 8c 821

Births Mar 1880
Caine Thomas Chorlton 8c 812

Rose

1891 England Census 1891 England Census
Name: Thomas Cain
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Michael
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Hulme
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
Town: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Chorlton
Sub registration district: Hulme
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Michael Cain 40
Mary Cain 32
Mary E Cain 14
Thomas Cain 12
Kate Cain 8
Ann Cain 5
Margaret Cain 3
Ellen Ratcliffe 28
Martin J Ratcliffe 6
James Hy Ratcliffe 3

This is them in 1891, I think I would go with Manchester rather than St Helens

Thank you very much for your help. I was beginning to wonder where I needed to look - and seeing 2 different places of birth really threw me.

Thank you once again for finding those birth references and the marriage reference - I can now send off for some certificates and see where they lead.

Many thanks!

Rachel

I'm not sure the family you have in 1901 is the same one.

Here they are in 1891 and there's no Elizabeth or Bart:

1891 England Census
about Michael Cain
Name: Michael Cain
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil Parish: Hulme
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
Town: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Chorlton
Sub registration district: Hulme
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Household Members: Name Age
Michael Cain 40
Mary Cain 32
Mary E Cain 14
Thomas Cain 12
Kate Cain 8
Ann Cain 5
Margaret Cain 3
Ellen Ratcliffe 28
Martin J Ratcliffe 6
James Hy Ratcliffe 3

Rose

Rachel,

The ages are different again in 1891 so there are other possible births now.

Rose

Who is it that is your relative? We need to make sure we're following the correct Cain(e)s.

Rose

Hi,

My relative that I am trying to trace is Bartholomew - however, he was born in Ireland, so I need to find details of his siblings' births to continue to find details of his parents etc.

Bartholomew married in Prescot in 1920 and I have this certificate and I know when he died (again in Prescot)

I am fairly sure we have the right family - especially as the children's names, area and parents names are consistent. I realise that there is discrepancy with the ages, but I've found that with other ancestors.

Thanks again for your help - it is appreciated.

Regards

Rachel

I suppose another way to know if we have the right family would be to see if we can find these on the 1901 census and to see which area they are living in.

At least I now have the birth references for 2 of the Cain's so I'll request 1 and see where that leads.

I'm going to bed now - will look at this thread tomorrow afternoon.

Thank you.

Regards

Rachel

Rachel,

You need to forget the Chorlton ones then. They are not your family.

Mary Ellen is still with Michael and Mary in 1901:

1901 England Census
about Michael Kain
Name: Michael Kain
Age: 47
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil Parish: South Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: Hulme Holy Trinity
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Chorlton
Sub registration district: Hulme
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 90
Household Members: Name Age
Annie Kain 15
Catherine Kain 17
Lizzie Kain 11
Lucy Kain 7
Maggie Kain 13
Mary Kain 42
Mary E Kain 23
Michael Kain 47
Thomas Kain 21
Joseph Ratcliffe 17

Rose

Rachel,

Did Bartholomew list his father as Michael in 1920?

Rose

This looks to be the family:

Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Michael KANE Lodger (Head) M Male 30 Dublin, Ireland Labourer
Mary KANE Wife M Female 23 St Helens, Lancashire, England
Mary Ellen KANE Daur U Female 2 St Helens, Lancashire, England
Martin EGIN Lodger W Male 90 Ireland Labourer
Bridget KELLY Lodger W Female 40 Ireland
Mary KELLY Daur O Female 11 Ireland

Source Information:
Dwelling 31 Liverpool Street
Census Place Eccleston In Prescot, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341894
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3736 / 27
Page Number 10

Rose

1891:

1891 England Census
about Mary Cane
Name: Mary Cane
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Michael
Gender: Female
Where born: St Helens, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Eccleston
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
Town: St Helens
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Prescot
Sub registration district: St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Household Members: Name Age
Michael Cane 39
Mary Cane 33
Mary C Cane 13
Elizabeth Cane 6
Bartholomew Cane 3

Rose

Hi Rose,

Thank you for your replies. Bartholomew did state his father as being Michael in 1920 when he married, and it looks as though you have found the family in the census' - thank you very much.

I now need to try and fine the correct birth references for the family, so that I can request the marriage certificate.

I would really appreciate it anyone can find some of these births - thanking you in anticipation!

Kind regards

Rachel

No sign of any of the births under any variant of Cain.

There is this marriage though:

Marriages Mar 1876
ATKINS Mary Prescott 8b 907
Kean Michael Prescott 8b 907

There's a Mary Atkins from 1871 that seems to match.

Rose