Genealogy Chat

I have taken on board everything that's been said about asking for help so here is every scrap of info I have on my elusive one.
His name was Austin Smith born c1831.
In the 1851 census he was single aged 20, living in Liverpool and a dock labourer. He was a lodger and was born in Ireland. I can't find his Parents on this census. His Dad was a Farmer called Jonathan.
In 1858 he marries Elizabeth Pepper in Liverpool. By now he is a mariner and Jonathan is now deceased.
There is no sign of them in the 1861 census.
In the 1871 census Elizabeth and their children are living in Liverpool. Elizabeth is described as an annuitant and head of the household. Also she has a lodger.
In the 1881 census it looks as if Elizabeth has remarried, to Henry Parry. She is in Liverpool with her children. Henry is a seaman and not on the census.
In 1883 Austins daughter, Susan, marries Henry Thomas Strickland in Liverpool. On the marriage cert, Austin is a master mariner and it doesn't say he is deceased.
I haven't been able to find a birth or death record for Austin.
My Gran, his Grandaughter, told me that he had been the captain of a ship going between Liverpool and New York and that Susan had been born on board.
I will be online for the rest of today and all day tomorrow if anyone is able to shed light or point me in the right direction.
Thanks for reading this and I'm sorry it's so long winded xx

Have you seen these two deaths? With it saying in 1871 that Elizabeth is an annuitant, it sounds as though Austin may be dead and she has been left an annuity or some kind of yearly allowance.

Austin Smith Jun qtr 1860 Liverpool 8b 63
Austin Smith Sep qtr 1862 West Derby 8b 338 (West Derby is an area near Liverpool)

Just found this on the IGI, which throws things out - I'm trying to get onto the census but Ancestry is being funny at the moment.

Susan Smith b. 13 Jul 1867 chr 13 Jan 1868 St. Peter, Liverpool, father Austin, mother Elizabeth

Maybe 1867 is a mistake, or it could be the child of another couple?

This looks like the family in 1871 - Susan's POB is given as New York, United States:
1871 England Census
about Susan Smith
Name: Susan Smith
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: New York, United States
Civil Parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Liverpool
Sub registration district: Mount Pleasant
ED, institution, or vessel: 38
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 94
Household Members: Name Age
John H Carter 29
Elizabeth Smith 31
Fanny Smith 1
Lucy A Smith 8
Susan Smith 4

Irene,

This name rings a bell. Have you deleted your old thread on this man?

Rose

Thanks so much.
No I hadn't found either the marriage or the death. To be honest I didn't think of looking for the marriage, I just believed the census, but couldn't understand why Austin isn't described as deceased on his daughter's marriage cert.
Kate, where did you find the death? I can't have been looking in the right places. I will send for a cert.
Thanks again both of you, this is the most new info I've had in over a year.
xx

Elizabeth is shown as married in the 1871. The other two children born Liverpool. So, looks as if Austin was alive in 1871.

No Portland Rose it's still there but I've changed my username to make things easier. I think you helped me last time
x

On the death indexes on Ancestry - I was about to try the Lancashire BMD site when I found it. (I've got ancestors from the same area so I found it quite useful.

I think sometimes - with you mentioning why wasn't Austin noted as deceased on Susan's marriage certificate? - what was on the certificate depended on how the marrying couple were questioned? If it was just "What's your father's name and what does he do?" they might not say he was deceased, but if they were asked "Who was your father and is he still living?" they might say, "He was Austin Smith and he is dead but he used to be a mariner".

ok, thanks Kate. Logical when you think about it.
Another thing that confuses me is that some of the children are stated to have been born in New York but are registered in Liverpool. Is that what happens if you are born on a ship?

Irene,
Given the DOBS of the children in the 1871, I wouldn't think those 1860s deaths could be his.

Thanks Potty, yes that's them.

Ah! Good thinking Potty. I hadn't checked that yet.

Could be, Irene. My great-grandmother was said to have been born in Canada but was registered in West Derby - I thought she could have been born in Canada and then registered when her mother got home. (Turned out she was born in Bootle, though!)

Maybe you register the birth at the next place the ship docks at? Just wondering also if it was possible that Austin died in America, or if he did die in the 1860s and his wife had children with somebody else who she didn't marry? I think in that situation the children would have been Smiths because it would be her name at the time of their births.

There is no birth registered for a Susan Smith in Liverpool for 1867 or 1868. Registration was compulsory until 1875.

Susan is the only one who is given a POB as New York and in 1881 it says Liverpool!

If her birth was registered anywhere in the UK I think it would be on the overseas births, which aren't covered by freebmd.

thanks. If someone dies onboard ship or another country, does that mean that there won't be a record of that death here?

If they die on a ship, I think the death would be probably be registered at the first port of call and possibly on the overseas deaths register.

I will see what I can find on the GRO site.

What if the ship went down? I have been told that some members of the family were involved in a ships fire.
Thanks for all this Potty

Irene,

Go to this site http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/order_certificates/Search_for_overseas_records/index.asp

It has info on overseas certs.

I suppose that if a ship went down with all hands and there were no bodies, the relatives would have to wait (I think) seven years before they could be presumed dead.

can't be that then cos she married again pretty sharpish