Genealogy Chat

Betty Lou..so sorry marriage record stop at 1860....so i can't help you.
You might try FrreBMD for rcords after 1901.
All the best

Derek

Hi Derek

I am hoping that you may be able to tell me where I could purchase a CD-ROM specifically for the parish records of Tideswell please...I have googled but I cannot find anything. I visited our local FH fair last year on the hope of finding alas nothing

My husband is a direct descendant of the prolific Tideswell Bramwell family and although I have found many extracted records on IGI I have so many loose ends and puzzles...too many to mention on here!! As in many family trees each of the Bramwell family lines have the same christian names born circa the same year I don't know who's who!! For example I am trying to find the correct marriage of Robert Bramwell b c1796...I have found 4 marriages to 4 Robert Bramwells...but which one is ours...lol !

I would really appreciate any help

Many thanks

Linda

Hi Derek, thanks for your kind offer. I am looking for more information of John Waters and his wife Hannah Sturland, also a baptism record of one of their children, Thomas.

Could you please look up their marriage register in Wilne that they were married on 01 May 1785?

Also one of their children (I think), Thomas Waters was baptised on 22 Jun 1785 in Wilne.

Regards, Steven.

Hi Derek,

Now 'I love you to bits"... as this info cfms what I have. At this stage I do not need any more info... but wait .... there could be more ... and I will let you know.

Once again tks so much for doing these lookups for me.. I am forever in your debt.

Cheers.
Karen of Brisbane

Linda in Cheshire..Good morning!
Well then , you certainly have a big problem here!..I actually have the Tideswell Parish records......and if there is a bigger list of surnames than the Bramwells I haven't seen one yet!!.........Normally I'd say extra enries such as witnesses would give a clue as to which Robert or whoever is the righ one..but before about 1830 there aren't any........

Here's what i ahve after a very quick look...It oesn't really help you, or me with only a date of c1796..and here's why:-

02.02.1796 Robert son of Elias and Hannah
30.10.1796 Robert son of Samuel and Ann(Hill)
26.03.1797 Robert son of Thomas and Catherine(Stevenson)
24.09.1797 Robert son of Robert and Ann(Bocking)

others are not close enough to qualify as c1796

So when it comes to marriages you look for a gap of say 18-25 years and there are only THREE:
Robert m. Mary Needham 19.11.1816
Robert m Esther Ann walker 22.05.1820
Robert m Martha Middleton 02.02.1824

the two either side of these are 1786 and 1849..the first is impossible..the second unlikely in the extreme.

This particular challenge is a good one!! i'll keep nosing around......please ask me as much as you like....

All the best

Derek

Hi again Linda........I can tell you a it more now

Elias Bramwell born 16.10.1762 did not marry at Tideswell..which simply means that Hannah came from elsewhere..and cannot get her maiden name unless we know her own parish..It was very common for the girl to wed in her own Parish and then move to her new husband's.

Samuel married Ann Hill 01.12.1783
Thomas married Catherine Stevenson 19.05.1780
Robert married Ann Bocking 26.12.1786.

If you have any siblings for your Robert we can probably identify him......or i can simply send you all the children of these four families.......

By the way the records for Tideswell are:
Baptisms 1635-1841
Marriages 1635-1860
Burials 1635-1900..
so with a bit of cool headed cross referencing we might have a bit of fun!!

Derek

Good afternoon Derek.

Wow you are up for a challenge...many many thanks. I don't know about having a cool head though...mine has been blowing steam over the past few years lol !

My husband's 4x gt grandparents were Samuel Bramwell and Ann Hill as you say they were married 01/12/1783. Their known children were...

Ralph Bramwell (my husband's 3x gt grandfather) bap 25/02/1784
Ann Bramwell bap 09/02/1789
William Bramwell bap 22/08/1790
Samuel Bramwell bap 01/01/1793
Robert Bramwell bap 30/10/1796
Joseph Hill Bramwell bap 01/03/1799
Hill Bramwell bap 21/10/1803
Thomas Bramwell bap 02/02/1806

Ralph married my husband's 3x gt grandmother Ellen Merryl on 12/04/1819

Samuel married Mary Walker 25/12/1818....they had a son Hill Bramwell bap 08/08/1825 who married Fanny Furniss 05/10/1846 (I have this cert).

So I am now looking again for the marriage of Robert....help lol !!

Many thanks again Derek,

Linda

Hello Derek...

Going through all my papers I have a 4th marriage...

Robert Bramwell to Hannah Marshall 21/12/1820 Tideswell (batch no M058011).

I am unsure of the marriage to Esther Ann Walker...I think this is Robert son of Robert and Anne Bockin (spelling)...illogical thinking ??

On the IGI....batch no C058013...there are 9 children born to Robert Bramwell and Anne...however on some baptisms the mother's name changes to Nancy....there is also a daughter named Nancy bap 23/08/1807.

According to IGI...batch no C058011....Robert Bramwell and Esther Ann Walker have 8 children one daughter is also named Nancy bap 30/10/1820.

I said it was illogical thinking...I hope what I have written makes sense and I haven't confused you even more!!

Regards

Linda

Hi again Linda.....you'll need to read this very carefull and with a clear head..from what i can see some of your IGI batch Numbers etc asre ok..others are not.......I'll send you what i have found from Tideswell Parish registers....who's provenance i would prefer to sumitted IGI records......
1. It was THOMAS Bramwell who married Hannah Marshall 20.12.1820.

2.Your RALPH Bramwell bapt 1784 is on records as ROBERT!!!..but ththas to be wrong because they also had Robert in 1796

Samuel Bramwell and Ann Hill had the children you have named..
Joseph Hill Bramwell married Elizabeth Cooke 28.06.1819
Hill Bramwell died08.05.1804 aged One. and Thomas Bramwell married Grace Bennett 13.11.1811

If this family is as you say the family of you husband then Robert 30.10.1796 must be your Robert...........there are only three possible wives for him..more on that later.........I'll have a look at Ralph's mariage details..and try and find a death for Robert ..if it gives his age..and if he predeceased his wife then we're in business.

I have nine children for Thomas bramwell and catherine stevenson..including Robert 26.03.1796

Ihave six children for Robert senior and Ann Bocking .with a son Robert born 1797........

A Robert Bramwell married Mary Needham 19.11.1816 and had nine childre four of whom died very young..one of smallpox!

A Robert Bramwell maried Esther Ann Walker22.05.1823..this is my favourite...and had nine children including mary who died aged 2

A Robert Bramwell married Martha Middleton 02.02.1824 and had six children..including two hannahs.the first of which died at 17 days old...and they replaced her two years later.....

There is a possible confusion...not directly relevant to us becasue there are two Samuels married to Ann............but the second one the Ann comes from Litton..but just to confuse things she had her first child Michael 16.06.1748........

The world's gone mad!! am i'm loving it..at the risk of sounding awful..trust me I'm good at this............so just bear with me......

Derek

Hi linda..have just checked out Ralph's prolific sex life!! I presume you know all about the details of his nine children
But wow!! he married when he was 35......and he was still at it aged 53!!.which in that day and age was amazing. Poor Ellen!!

Derek

LOL Derek...I would prefer to think that Ralph was an energetic kind of guy...but my sympathies are with Ellen!! Yes I have his 9 children lol...my husband's 2x gt grandfather John Bramwell b1826 was their 5th child. By 1851 he had moved to Stockport, Cheshire!

Many thanks for the info however when I was looking on IGI a few years ago it definately had Ralph b1784 indexed.... parents Samuel Bramwell and Ann Hill.

I had found a Joseph b c1799 Tideswell and an Elizabeth on the census which ties in with your info...by 1851 the family had moved to Droylsden, Lancashire. They had 6 known children all born in Tideswell ! Joseph died in 1876. Another cert to order!!

I cannot find Thomas and Grace on any census...I will keep looking!

Tonight I have found a Robert Bramwell b c1797 married to a Mary (Needham?) on Ancestry. The 1841 census has the family mistranscribed as Bracewell but they are Bramwell in 1851. However, taking a breather (lol), I googled Bramwell Tideswell I came across a guy from the US who has his tree online...Robert Bramwell and Mary Needham are on his family tree !! He has Robert's parents being Thomas Bramwell and Catherine Stevenson. Do I presume that his research is correct...if that is the case 3 down 2 to go!!!

I really appreciate your help and enthusiasm Derek.

Best wishes

Linda

Hi Linda.....just got back from Matlock.....thought i'd do a quick check for you...Your Ralph Bramwell 25.02.1784 is definitley Robert on the original register..can read it quite clearly.

I have also been trolling the census for you.........its getting a bit complicated because we have another Robert Bramwell who married an Ann who came from ireland!!

There is a MI at Tideswell for Robert and Martha 1875...Robert was a parish Clerk..also appears on the census......We have another..maybe the same one who was a Cordwainer...

I have the baptism dates, and some deaths for all the children of Samuel/Ann..Thomas/Catherine..Robert snr /Ann
as well as those for the three possible Roberts who married Ann needham/Esther Ann/Martha Middleton

Thomas Bramwell 02.02.1806 married Grace Bennett 13.11.1828

Your Joseph Hill Bramwell 01.03.1799 married Elizabeth Cooke 28.06.1819

There is also a Jesse son of thomas and catherine born 03.03.1799 ""
He is on the census as Jessy..and lives two doors away from one of our Roberts!!

..and if you want to get really paranoid I can tell you that all the Bramwalls disappear from the records and Bramwell takes over!!

I'm doing some work for someone else...the'r enquiries pertain to Swindell..who strangel were originally Swindalls

All the best !!!

Derek

Linda....I only just noticed your poece about the guy in America.....if he has a definite link between thomas and catherine's Robert and the robert who married Mary Needham.of course it would be a blessing.........i can't prove that link ..on any marriage cerificate before 1837..parents names are not given.only the groom's occupation....if you're lucky
I don't do guesses of assumptions..just no point.
I had a problem in my own tree for a marriage 1834..I got the copy cert and it had my Gt gtg grandfathers occupation on it..which in mycase sealed the deal....
I think he;s guessing....unless he can prove otherwise!!

Derek

Hi Derek...you are very kind to go to such lengths for me...i really appreciate it.

One of the first tips I learnt from reading the GR boards some four years ago when I joined was not to assume...so I have let myself down there presuming this guy's tree could be accurate! Infact his tree is incomplete as he doesn't have Jesse indexed!! His home page comes up with error so I cannot cannot contact him to find out more!

I find that Ralph was baptised Robert rather strange...am I paranoid... you bet...never mind the surname change!!

I have the 1851 marriage cert of my husband's 2x gt grandparents John Bramwell to Sarah Worsley at Cheadle Parish Church, Cheshire (my home village) and John's father is Ralph Bramwell occup dealer.

I have Ralph and Ellen on the 1841,51,61 census...occup draper then hawker! A possible death for Ralph in Dec qtr 1861. I will order this death cert. Also the possible death cert for Ellen June qtr 1862.

Going through my files I have a possible birth for Samuel Bramwell bap 26/01/1764 Tideswell...parents Ralph Bramwell and Elizabeth unknown. This is on IGI extracted parish records batch no C058012.

I am even more confused now about Robert never mind Ralph/Robert....!!

Many thanks again

Linda

Hi Linda..........I think i have unearthed a problem for you..........are you sure that Samuel and Ann were the parents of your Ralph Bramwell?????

Ralph Bramwell son of Samuel and Ann (unbaptised)..died 20.04.1784..I say unbaptised becasue there is no record of his baptism....but if we accept that Robert?Ralph? was born 25.02.1784....of Samuel and Ann....then he was certainly dead two months later.

On the other hand Ralph Bramwell married Ellen Merryl 12.04.1819...He died in balewell union Workhouse 20.10.1861 aged 72..which makes his birth year 1789..which means he was not baptised in Tideswell.

Ellen Bramwell widow of Ralph died Tideswell 24.06.1862 aged 65.

oops!!!!.......Derek

Hi Derek wondered if you can help? New to all this but here goes... Looking for parents or siblings of JOHN INKLE c1767 from Gretton Northampton married ALICE Day c1769. I have found that most Inkle's came later from Derbyshire some from Chesterfield area.
Many Thanks
Mary No 2 !!!!

Many thanks again Derek...it looks as if it is back to the drawing board..!! At least I know he did exist lol !

I have Ralph in 1841 b c1791 in Tideswell born in county
1851 b c1788 Stockport
1861 b c1788 Tideswell

I ordered Ralph's possible death cert last night also Ellen's....perhaps they may glean some clue!

Many thanks for your time Derek...I may be back !!!

Best wishes

Linda

Hi linda..if you want to give me your EMail via PM..I'll see if i can send you the Tideswell Parish records. i have had had trouble before because of the size of the files..but I can possibly split thme up and send them to you in bits.
There are types of files..the Wordprocessor files that give Alphapetis records..very useful..cos all your bramwells are together in Chronilogical order.
and the CSV files that are ourely chronological but the later ones give more information..like out of Parish.and occupations.

Derek

Hi Mary (no2!!!) lol..I'll see what I can find......not much to go on,,but I'll look

Best Wishes

Derek

Hello again Linda..I thibk i gave you John Bramwell son of ralph and Ellen..bapt 25.12.1826.....i have allthe other Ralph/Ellen children..Ann Ellen etc...........
Sp obviously he existed..live and died in Tideswell.

But he could NOT have been the son of Samuel and Ann.....equally he could not have been baptised in Tideswell..even in 1791.....UNLESS he was batised in a non-comformist register............

I am happy that the children of Samuel and Ann include Roberet..not Ralph............but all your other info is correct..i just think you've got the wrong parents.....

I'll have a look for him in one or two other Local Registers......

Derek