Genealogy Chat

Here is a Todd/Huyton marriage but most likely unconnected.

Marriages Dec 1921 (71%)
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Harper Harold A Mainwaring Wolverhampton 6b 1247
Huyton Florence A Todd Wolverhampton 6b 1247
Mainwaring Myra V Harper Wolverhampton 6b 1247
Todd Reginald R W Huyton Wolverhampton 6b 1247

Jane that was a good find. This might be their marriage, but doesn't help at all.

Marriages Sep 1899
Brierley Anne Geraldine Chorlton 8c 1671
Dempsey Annie Chorlton 8c 1671
Harrison Charles Wallace Chorlton 8c 1671
Todd William Henry Chorlton 8c 1671

or
Marriages Jun 1900

Little John Salford 8d 74
Mersley Ann Salford 8d 74
Seddon Alice Salford 8d 74
Todd William Salford 8d 74

Hi as requested her age on marriage cert looks like 25 but the way its written looks alot like 15 but i don't think that could be right.

James arthur nield is 34

No,

I can't read the first word either!!!

BW

Jane

Hi Jane,

That William H Todd is an interesting entry. Can you read his occupation? I'm struggling with the first word, but the second looks like "eye", unless a later mark has been made over that word. The pencil next to it may say "opt" - presumably for optical?

Hi all,

Just following up on Aussietrish's entry:

"James Fletcher 1916 Apr-May-Jun Staits Chorlton
William Hocknell 1916 Apr-May-Jun Davenport Chorlton
Victoria A Staite 1916 Apr-May-Jun Fletcher Chorlton
volume 8c 1713
only three names on ancestory/free bmd so one female missing"

Doesn't seem to be on FreeBMD at all, but Lancs BMD has the marriage - William Hocknell married Emily Davenport in Levenshulme (part of the Chorlton reg dist). Emily looks as if she can be matched to one living in Levenshulme in 1901.

Stacey,

What age does it say she is on her marriage certificate? When somone registers a death the info is only as good as the knowledge of the person who is registering it!!

This census info intrigues me

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1901 England Census
about Margaret Todd
Name: Margaret Todd
Age: 5 months
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1900
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William H
Mother's Name: Annie
Gender: Female
Where born: Hightown Manchester

Civil Parish: North Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: St Albans
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Prestwich
Sub-registration district: Cheetham
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 95
Household Members: Name Age
Annie Todd 29
Margaret Todd 5 months
William H Todd 31


Could it be that this is William Hocknell Todd and the registrar forgot to put the Todd bit on!! Only an idea.

I know I have thrown another spanner in the works now.

BW

Jane

Hi Selena,

It probably is going to be almost impossible to prove. One problem is it is so far from 1901 to 1918 - the 1911 census might well be helpful.

I wonder if electoral roll info for the Huytons might help? It is just possible that these could have been Margaret's grandparents, or some other relatives.

Ivy, many thanks for taking the time to look it up.

Have to admit, I'm completely flummoxed now.

Thanks

Selena

There are 72 called Margaret, of which 12 are living in Lancs. Two of these have a father William, but that will be William Todd rather than William Hocknell (although nothing's impossible in this case!)

If William Hocknell is a stepfather, then there may be no indications in 1901 - Margaret/Daisy's mother may have left home or been widowed after 1901.

Of these twelve, the only one not with at least one parent is this one:

Name: Margaret Todd
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1895
Relation: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Scarisbrick, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Scarisbrick
Ecclesiastical parish: Scarisbrick St Martin
Town: Scarisbrick
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Ormskirk
Sub-registration district: Scarisbrick
ED, institution, or vessel: 3

Household schedule number: 28
Household Members:
Name Age
Margaret Todd 6
Margaret Welson 58

There is one with just her father Robert in Liverpool b 1891; and a couple with just a mother:
- Hannah in Southport b 1892
- Sarah A in Worsthorne b 1892

Will be logging off for a while

There are ten Todd girls on the England 1901 census born between 1890 and 1900 called Daisy, but none from Lancs (3 Lincs, 2 Essex, also Berkshire, Durham, Kent, Surrey and B'ham).

Hi Selena,

I followed Hocknell purely on the basis that it was rarer. I agree, a possibility is that Margaret may have originally been Todd, and Hocknell her stepfather's name.

Does anyone feel like looking for Margaret Todd on the 1901 census? I would if I had Ancestry. I don't want to waste anyone's time but I would like to rule out the Todd possibility.

Thanks,

Selena

I'm still stuggling with the Todd theory. Does everyone generally think that Margaret passed herself off as Ms Todd when George was born?

I suppose this was possible in 1918 with most births at home, no documents i.e. marriage cert required at registration?

Selena

Ok, I'm going to go off in yet another direction.

Hocknell is the name on the marriage registration in the Dec 1920 qtr, and also represents the H in George's birth registration. It struck me that this was a little like the place name Hucknall in Derbyshire, but I thought there would be a lot with that surname, so I've abandoned that for now (edited - actually, there may be even fewer, perhaps I'll have a look at that too).

Since literacy seems to be pretty much universal by 1901, and by then people seem to be fixed to the particular spelling of their surname on the whole, I wondered how many Hocknells there are (exact spelling). There are not all that many in Lancashire, and restricting the search to Chorlton alone identifies just 6, four of these in the same household.

Thomas is the head of the household, with wife and one small daughter Annie; the other is his unmarried brother William, born abt 1874. Both Thomas and William are Corporation carters, which doesn't seem a million miles away from cleansing inspectors. If so, then Margaret may be this William's daughter, either born after 1901, or born out of wedlock before 1901? [Ed: or indeed, as Selena says, she may have originally been Todd before she was a Hocknell - perhaps an unmarried Hocknell if William was her stepfather]

I wonder if it's worth having a further look for Hocknell events in Chorlton between 1891 and 1918?

(Waves to Sylvia, and hopes your migraine has eased)

I'm just catching up here. I see that the Nield family have been in the Gorton (Chorlton) area since the 1880s and that George's stepsister Ada's birth looks to have been in 1914?

Hi Stacey,

When did Ada Nield marry Charles Grattan? There is no obvious marriage on FreeBMD.

I just wondered whether Ada and Jimmy are George's stepsister and stepbrother, witnesses at his own wedding some years later?

hmmm

Gorton's Manchester ...... not far from Belle Vue zoo. My brother used to live there, and not that far from Station Road either!


Margaret could just have been lodging with the Huytons'


Sorry, not thinking too straight at the moment ...... I had to take some pretty strong medication for a migraine earlier, and it leaves me a little zombie'd, so I'm not going to try to do any searching this evening!

sylvia

thanks for trying so hard to work out this mystery.

its beginning to drive me crazy, wish my grandad knew more or that hes not talking one of the two.

The other thing is my grandad is very dark skinned and so is my aunt and her daughter, to the point that people use to think they were half-cast.

Apparently margaret lived with a family called huyton before she had george, all i know is that it was at 5 station road, gorton living with them before she had george and its also the address on her marriage cert.

Not sure why she was there

I seem to have misinterprted who Kath was tlaking about.

I just got this email from her:-

I meant a spanner as in that's the Daisy Hocknell the other person has decided is Margaret, and I think it's a completely different person (as I think you thought).

The marriage indicates that Daisy Hocknell had a life of her own and wasn't Margaret, I'd say.

I got obsessed with that one last night and found some more stuff I'll send you, lucky you. ;)


Sue ...... I think this refers back to the thought I had as to whether the Disay I had found in a census was actually margaret being called Daisy.

- - - -

Kath then sent another email with the following information that she had found:-


So this is as far as I got ... which basically amounts to going around in circles!


Nobody seems to have come up with this obvious possible marriage for the William Hocknell father of Margaret:

Name: William Walter Hocknell + Annie Yates
Year of Registration: 1886
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Congleton <<<
County: Cheshire, Staffordshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 473

Death:

Name: William W Hocknell
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Year of Registration: 1910
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 54
District: Congleton
County: Cheshire, Staffordshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 154

The household in 1901, I'd say -- William going by Walter:

Agnes Hocknell 11
Annie Hocknell 38
Edith Hocknell 12
Eliza Hocknell 2
Emma Hocknell 5 -- could this be Margaret also going by given/second name?
Harold Hocknell 8
Walter Hocknell 43


Annie Yates in 1881:

Name: Annie Yates
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Swettenham, Cheshire, England
Civil Parish: Newbold Astbury
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street address: Glebe Farm
Occupation: Domestic Servant
Registration district: Congleton
Sub-registration district: Congleton

I think she is mistakenly called daughter of WW Hocknell's mother Eliza in 1891.

So the question is: is this Margaret? --

Name: Emma Hocknell
Year of Registration: 1895
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Congleton
County: Cheshire, Staffordshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 290

Not too damned likely, I suppose.

K




seems possible doesn't it???



sylvia