Genealogy Chat

LOL Linda

It's odd how it happens like that but sometimes going off down a different route can lead to unexpected places.

My Eliza Coles's partner may never be proved but going back several generations through her maternal line has led me (eventually!) to an interesting family called LeVasher who were decorative plasterers and brought over from France to decorate Dunster Castle in Somerset.

I hope that something turns up and you find your John Parsons but you've a lot of other ancestors waiting to be discovered.

Best wishes
Sue
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Well Sue, I'm glad I'm not alone, if this works out due to the help of all the good people on here I'll have a Joseph who is really William John, a Charles Kernick who is really Charles Wm and a Charlotte Parsons who is really Charlotte Eliza Kernick. When the death cert arrives for the so called husband John Parsons (which is the line I'm following - NO, I MEAN TRYING TO FOLLOW) what's the bet the informant is a coroner and John's ABOUT ? years. I'll still then not know Johns DOB, parents or siblings!!!!
I did this to take a break from the other side of my family as they were proving really difficult, lol!

I have a similar puzzle on one of my branches.
My 3x great grandmother Eliza (nee Coles) had 6 illegitimate children. She lived in a tiny village and I've seen the original registers.
My 2x great grandmother was born before registration so I thought I'd be clever and buy the cert of one of the younger siblings............no named father.

My 2x great grandmother names her father as John Coles when she married. There was a John Coles in the same village BUT he is married in censuses and has a different family (though to confuse matters he is married to a completely different Eliza.........who was also an Eliza Coles as a maiden name! I've seen their marriage details and looked at the baptisms of all their kids).

For a while I assumed my 3x Eliza was perhaps having children by several men but much later when my 2x grandmother died suddenly her husband said at her inquest that heart trouble was what her father had died of.
So she'd had a father and her husband knew who he was!!!

I'm still confused and I've puzzled over this lot for about 10 years.

In the meantime I've gone off and explored the more reliable female lines!

I've even wondered if my Coles were gypsies because I've read that polygamy was not uncommon........but what are the odds on a John Coles having two wives both called Eliza Coles?!!!

Good luck
Sue
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Okay, nite nite and thanks.

I have access to Ancestry but have been unable to find them on there. Would it be any different for someone with access to Surrey?

I've tried to find Joseph/William on the 1851 but failed. I will try again tomorrow if no one has found them but I must go to bed now as I have to be up in 6 hours!

If you can find someone with access to the 1851 census for Surrey then perhaps they could do a search for a John Parsons living with a Charlotte.

I just had a look at the 1841 and saw a number of possibles but I've run out of credit on Findmypast

Sue
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Charles was also born in the Workhouse, Walworth.
Although I assumed all these children were illigitimate I was told that women sometimes went into the workhouse to have their children as they used them like a hospital which they would not otherwise have access to, don't know if that is correct though.

I don't think he was a name plucked out of the air. I would guess he was Charlotte's husband in all but name. Divorce was not an option for most people so they'd set up new households and live as if married. This happened a lot more than people realise.

If you can find the right death cert for John it might give a clue about what he did for a living. I think it highly likely that he was originally a greengrocer and Charlotte and Joseph carried on the business.

In the meantime there is no reason why you shouldn't go off at a tangent and look at the Kernicks. They are just as much your ancestors.

Sue
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Thank you everyone for your help.

One last thing would you assume that Joseph is really William John?

Sue, I'm going to order the death certs. one by one starting with the Newington one.

Where was the Charles Parsons (the one you have a cert for) born?

Part of the problem is they didn't always tell the truth. I have 3 certs which I know are incorrect.

But do I continue to look for the elusive John Parsons that I don't know a DOB, siblings, parents etc. or do I accept he was just a name plucked out of the air to make Charlotte look respectable??

If you are feeling like a gamble here are some John Parson deaths.

Maybe Charlotte was the named wife for one of these but not sure which you ought to try first.......perhaps the Newington.

Deaths Jun 1859
PARSONS John Lambeth 1d 171
PARSONS John Newington 1d 128


Deaths Sep 1859
PARSONS John Lambeth 1d 239
PARSONS John St George S 1d 121
PARSONS John Farnbro 2a 58


Deaths Mar 1860
Parsons John Wheeler Lambeth 1d 292

You are a descendant of Kernick too.

It's a good Cornish name. Should keep you busy for a bit.

Sue
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I don't think your Charlotte actually married John Parsons.

I wonder if he was already married and they just lived together.

I can't find a marriage to a Parsons or Parson.

Sue
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I'm not sure where to go here? I am a decendant of Parsons so if Charlotte Kernick didn't really marry John Parsons just made him up do I follow the Kernick name from here on??? what a mess

If you go to the IGI and put in a search for Kernick in Surrey you get what look like a number of Charlotte's relations.

They seem to be in Southwark and Newington.

Sue
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A base child is a way of saying that a child is illegitimate.
The cert you have for Charlotte is correct, it's the same address they were living at on the 1861 census.

I think that is probably the one Sue, the birth date is slightly out but Kernick is not too common and St Peters, Walworth would fit in nicely.