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Stephanie if you wanted to send for the certificate i think you can do it in her name and have a check done to make sure it is to him , before they send it to you

do you think ? it seems like . it does seem to link a lot x i will order cert to double check anyway ... hey your good at this janice x

ok i'll do that thanx again x

when is the next census coming out? do you know....

give this a try http://www.1911census.org.uk for dates

So here's what I didn't notice -- in 1891, William Henry Roe is himself a "Sailor".

And here he is in 1881:

Name: William Henry Roe
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Gender: Male
Where born: Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil Parish: Vessels
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street address: "Lynx"
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education: View Image
Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Shipkeeper

Registration district: Swansea
Sub-registration district: Swansea
ED, institution, or vessel: Lynn (2)


His age is wrongly transcribed: it very clearly says "23", i.e. year of birth 1858.

It also very clearly says "un married".

And as for the huge list of people supposedly in his household -- no idea. He appears all by himself on a single page which is page 1 of 1 in "District Lynn(2)", under Vessels, Glamorgan. Actually, it seems that every other individual in that supposed "household" list is the master of his own vessel ... well, not quite; some of them are crew.

So -- it does very much look as if the seafaring is on William's side of the family.


And here's an interesting thing. I find him in 1861 in Gloucestershire with parents Daniel and Susanna, but the only person who matches him in 1871 is:


Name: William Hy Thomas
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Son
Father's Name: David
Mother's Name: Martha
Gender: Male
Where born: Neath, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil Parish: Neath
Ecclesiastical parish: Neath
Town: Neath
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration district: Neath
Sub-registration district: Neath
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household schedule number: 65

Annie Thomas 20
Catherine Thomas 10
David Thomas 48 - railway station superintendant
Edith B Thomas 5
Eliza Jane Thomas 12
Frederic C Thomas 3
John Thomas 24
Margaret Thomas 8
Martha Thomas 46
Martha Thomas 22
Oliver H Thomas 16
Thomas L Thomas 6
William Hy Thomas 13


Here's the 1861 household:


Name: William Hy Roe
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Daniel
Mother's Name: Susanna
Gender: Male
Where born: Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil Parish: Newnham
Town: Newnham
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Registration district: Westbury On Severn
Sub-registration district: Newnham
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Household schedule number: 63

Daniel Roe 28 - baker and confectioner
Loura Roe 16 Mo
Susanna Roe 24
William Hy Roe 3

Can't find a well-matched Susanna and Daniel Roe in the 1871, except for this couple whose ages match, but that's all (I know, it's "Rowe", but that's what the search found me when I searched by given names only!):


Name: Daniel Rowe
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Susan A
Gender: Male
Where born: Devonport

Civil Parish: St Andrew
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Town: Plymouth
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Registration district: Plymouth
Sub-registration district: St Andrew
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 419

Susan Haddy 60
Nancy Langford 20
Amelia Rowe 7
Ann L Rowe 9
Beatrice Rowe 1
Charles H Rowe 4
Daniel Rowe 38 - shipwright
Daniel Rowe 2
Jessie Rowe 5
Susan A Rowe 32 - could be an error for Susanna


The occupation is in line with seafaring.

I wonder whether in 1871 Daniel was with an uncle Thomas or some such.


Can't find the birth of a William Henry Rowe/Roe c1858 in Glamorgan -- but there is a plethora of William Henry Thomas-s:


William Henry Thomas 1857 Jul-Aug-Sep Cardiff (1837-1974) Glamorgan, Monmouthshire

William Henry Thomas 1858 Jan-Feb-Mar Cardiff (1837-1974) Glamorgan, Monmouthshire

William Henry Thomas 1858 Jan-Feb-Mar Newport M Glamorgan, Gwent, Monmouthshire

** William Henry Thomas 1858 Jan-Feb-Mar Swansea Glamorgan, West Glamorgan


and that one I've asterisked matches up with the one in 1871.

Here's the 1871 Thomas household in 1861:


Name: William Thomas
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Son
Father's Name: David
Mother's Name: Martha
Gender: Male
Where born: Neath, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil Parish or Township: Neath
Ecclesiastical parish: Llandaff
Town: Neath
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Registration district: Neath
Sub-registration district: Neath
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Household schedule number: 45

Ann Thomas 10
Catherine Thomas 11 Mo
David Thomas 40 - railway clerk
David Thomas 8
Elizabeth Jane Thomas 2
John Thomas 14
Margaret Thomas 9
Martha Thomas 36
Martha Thomas 11
Mary Thomas 15
Mary Thomas 18
Oliver Hugh Thomas 6
William Thomas 4


Your William Henry can of course be only one of the Williams in 1861 -- Roe or Thomas.

This would presumably be the marriage of Daniel Roe and Susannah (only one that matches in the GRO index):


Marriages Sep 1856
**MORRISH Susannah Swansea 11a 684
MUNRO Grosvenor Swansea 11a 684
Renoden Elizabeth Swansea 11a 684
**ROE Daniel Swansea 11a 684


From Mar1855 to Dec1861 there is no William Roe birth in Glamorgan. Or William Rowe, who matches his consistent two given names and c1858 birth.


So I think what you're still needing is the Louisa + William marriage certificate -- what it says about William's father may not be actually true, but at least it will tell you what he said about his father!

And now I remember what Janice put earlier, for 1861:

Name: William Roe
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Edmond - Mariner
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales


He isn't to be found after that, and your William isn't to be found before 1881, and neither of them is to be found anywhere in 1871. They could be the same one -- but where on earth is he / are they in 1871?

I would still peg this one as the closest to yours in 1861:


Name: William Hy Roe
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Daniel
Mother's Name: Susanna
Gender: Male
Where born: Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil Parish: Newnham
Town: Newnham
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England


I think, by comparing the other household members of that William Roe born c1860 in 1861:


Benjamin Roe 12
Edmond Roe 42
Edmond Roe 10
Elizabeth Roe 14
Mary Roe 36
Mary J Roe 4
Thomas Roe 6
William Roe 1


to this household in 1871:


Name: William Rowe
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil Parish: Swansea
Town: Swansea
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Registration district: Swansea
Sub-registration district: Swansea
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Household schedule number: 184

Elizabeth Richards 25
William H Richards 5 months
Frederick Row 6
Edmund Rowe 19
Mary Rowe 46 - Seaman's wife
Mary J Rowe 13
William Rowe 9


we can at least identify that William Roe/Rowe in 1871, with father Edmund apparently away on vessels. And I suspect this is him in 1881:


Name: William Rowe
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Swansea, Monmouth, Wales

Civil Parish: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 16/18 Limekiln Lane Model Lodging House
Occupation: Tin Smith
Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: St Martin


Need that Louisa + William marriage cert ... ;)

Possible IGI


WILLIAM HENRY ROE

Event(s):
Birth: 19 JUN 1857

Christening: 01 JUL 1857 Saint Mary, Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales

DANIEL ROE Family
Mother: SUSANNA



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


WILLIAM ROWE

Event(s):
Birth: 23 DEC 1859

Christening: 25 JAN 1860 Saint Mary, Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales
Parents:
Father: EDMUND ROWE Family
Mother: MARY

birth registered in Jan
Name: William Rowe
Year of Registration: 1860
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Swansea
County: Glamorgan, West Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 542

the one thing i have found out this eve is that william henry roe was a publican i have been given pictures of him outside his family pub....the family owned the beaufort pub in west cross swansea x but have been known to have something to do with mysydd st brewery yap inn in port talbot? i think they lived and ran it....1901 census states william henry roe b1858 was indeed a publican and married to a louisa m.. (also my grandmother is louisa) it just seems to fit in x im lead to believe that william and louisa's son in law who is my g. grandfather frederick john jones b----(who married annie louisa roe my g. grandmother b 1884) yes got me. now i believe this captain thomas could be frederick john jones' grandmother. obviously his mums married name would be jones but then was her maiden name thomas . will soon find out are you still with me....just need to order more certs regarding frederick's sidexxx

i've received marriage cert and confirms louisa margaretta jones and william henry roe's marriage on 23 nov 1882. it confirms a lot. william henry roe's fathers name is daniel roe and was a confectioner and louisa's father edward owen jones a school master. as i have the census of 1901 and all is spot on i'm sure now i can say that the annie louisa laura roe and her 2 brothers and 1 sister i know are the right ones are def my family and her mother my g. g. grandmother louisa margaretta jones is now i'm happy to say is correct... i'm on the right track. i now know louisa's connection to me is now correct. so i can continue to go further. hooray xxxxx

Aha! That Daniel Roe confectioner had looked rather unlikely when I found him, but that was the only household that was a good match, and it was the one!

I still wonder whether that picture isn't William Henry Roe himself, who was a seafarer on that earlier census before his marriage.

Or maybe just a family friend. ;)

louisa'a daughter annie louisa laura roe married a frederick john jones. so i do think the captain thomas maybe frederick's mother's father (even though she was a jones by marriage her maiden name may of been thomas?)