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1861 England Census
Name: Margaret Murphy
Age: 66
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1795
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland

Civil Parish: Westminster St Anne
Ecclesiastical parish: St Anne
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address: 19 St Anne's Court

Occupation: laundress

Condition as to marriage: widow

Registration district: Strand
Sub-registration district: St Anne Soho
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 162
Household Members: Name Age
Margaret Murphy 66

This is how they're listed on the image. So it looks like Mary jnr & Margaret may be daughters of Mary snr. Catherine may be another relative, sister of Mary snr perhaps.

1841 England Census
Name: Margaret Murphy
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland

Civil Parish: St Anne Soho
Hundred: Westminster
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address: Bull Yard

Occupation:

Registration district: Strand
Sub-registration district: St Anne Westminster
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Murphy 37 - independent
Mary Murphy 12
Margaret Murphy 3
Catherine Murphy 20

All born Ireland

http://www3.westminster.gov.uk/docstores/publications_store/archives/infosheet9.pdf

This should help you with coroner's report.

Did you ever find Margaret in 1841?

Ozi.

Hi,

An update:

I received the birth certificate of Henry Parr (John's brother) which confirms that they are brothers, and that Henry and his parents Margaret Murphy and Charles were living at 14 Little Chapel Street, Soho, in 1864.

I also have the death certificate of Margaret Murphy which states that she was a seamstress, and died at the Workhouse on Poland Street in Westminster in 1875 of TB. The informant was Margaret Ellard, present at death.

Finally I have Charles Parr's father's death certificate (Charles John Parr). He died in 1875 at the same workhouse, aged 63. He was a tailor, and died of disease of the heart accelerated by fractured ribs - no evidence how caused - duration not known. It also states that an inquest was held on 5th August 1875 by Charles Bedford, the coroner for Westminster.

Is there any way I can get hold of info about the inquest? Might be interesting!

I just read back through the posts and spotted the 1851 census that someone had posted with Margaret Murphy living with her mother (also Margaret, born in Ireland in about 1800) at St Anne's Court.

Can anyone spot them in 1841? I'm searching but not coming up with much!

Bummer. Must be just a coincidence.

1891 England Census
about J C F Lee
Name: J C F Lee
Age: 57
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Marion E
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: St Marylebone
Ecclesiastical parish: Trinity
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 9 Park crescent

Occupation: Civil engineer

Registration district: Marylebone
Sub-registration district: All Souls
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
J C F Lee 57
Marion E Lee 35 - Cheshunt, Hertfordshire
F L Lee 30 - Architect
M B Lee 32 [22 on image]
L M Lee 22
M V Lee 8
A M Lee 1
Barbara McWilliam 32
Kate Moore 22
Harriet Morley 24
John Passons 28
Louisa Smith 27
Annie Spinks 21
Mary Brown 37
Maud Cozens 22
A Hobbs 28

As usual, all non-Lees are servants.

Wow thanks!

The only problem is that I found a marriage of a Louisa Parr in 1859 in Strand (same place as her brother Charles got married 2 years prior) which also seems to fit:

1859 - Jan-Feb-Mar - Strand (1837-1913) - London, Middlesex

Daniel Adams
....>>>>Louisa Parr
Robert Pritchard
Catherine White

Amy, I've been trying to trace Louisa just to see if I can find her with her parents in 1861. No luck on that front.

However I think I may have got her. Bear with me.



In 1861 there is this Louisa, born in the right time & place. I can't find a marriage for these 2, but if you look at his 2nd marriage - coincidence or what!

1861 England Census
Name: Louisa Mary Lee
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: J C F
Gender: Female
Where born: St Jas Westminster, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Hampstead
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address: Mansfield House, Adelaide Rd N____ [North, I think]

Occupation:

Registration district: Hampstead
Sub-registration district: Hampstead
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 172
Household Members: Name Age
Justina Channing 20
J C F Lee 26 - engineer, St Helens Lancashire
Louisa Mary Lee 24
Fredk Lovell Lee 10 Mo
Mary Taylor 23
Cordelia Sarah Vokins 20
Susan Wenborn 50

All non-Lees are servants.

Births Jun 1860
LEE Frank Lovell Hampstead 1a 469


1871 here's the family, John CF is a widower.

1871 England Census
about John C F Lee
Name: John C F Lee
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: St Helens, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Hampstead St John
Ecclesiastical parish: All Souls
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 2 Fairfield Rd

Occupation: Civil Engineer

Registration district: Hampstead
Sub-registration district: Hampstead
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 2
Household Members: Name Age
John C F Lee 36
George Lee 8
Gay C Lee 6 [Guy]
Charles W Lee 5
Harry M Lee 4
Louisa M Lee 2
Mary B Lee 2
Jane McCreevil 19
Mary Smith 29
Cordelia S Vokins 29
Elizabeth Crop 26
Rebecca Golfin 27
Louisa Hamilton 40

All non-Lees are governess or servants.
Frank & a Herbert C. Lee are pupils in Frant, Sussex.


Deaths Dec 1869
Lee Louisa Mary 33 Hampstead 1a 446


Marriages Dec 1879
ALCOCK Elizabeth Kingston 2a 507
...>>>Lee John Cockburn F Kingston 2a 507
...>>>Parr Marion Emily Kingston 2a 507
Stevens William James Kingston 2a 507


1881 England Census
about J. C. F. Lee
Name: J. C. F. Lee
Age: 47
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Maryan E.
Gender: Male
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Beckenham
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street address: Ravenshead
Condition as to marriage: Married

Occupation: Retd Civil Engineer

Registration district: Bromley
Sub-registration district: Bromley
ED, institution, or vessel: 2b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
J. C. F. Lee 47 - retired Civil Engineer
Maryan E. Lee 27 - Richester
Frank L. Lee 20 - Architect
Louisa M. Lee 12
Mary B. Lee 12
Ellen E. Bryant 18
Ann Keen 48
John Keen 42
Jesse Lane 25
Eljath Mc Kay 30
Lottie Smart 20
Sarah Strackhan 31
Edward Tapman 23

Thanks for your help everyone. I'm tempted to pop down to the archives tomorrow and see what I can find in the parish records. Not sure where I'm going to start though!

They're not at 61 Poland Street in 1861. Nor in West Street. I can't find Louisa, daughter, either.

Ozi.

1871 England Census
Name: Charles Parr
Age: 58
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1813
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: St Martin, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: St James Westminster
Ecclesiastical parish: St John The Baptist
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 61 Poland Street

Occupation: tailor

Registration district: Westminster
Sub-registration district: Golden Square
ED, institution, or vessel: 9b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 780
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Parr 58
Mary Parr 58 - St Anns, Middlesex

Sylvia in Canada found 1861 for you on the previous page. He's with Margaret & eldest child.

Oops, sorry, you're talking about Charles snr.

Ozi.

Thanks for that Selena!

I've found the following census entries:

1841
Name: Charles Parr
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Where born: Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St James
Hundred: Westminster
Street address: Poland Street
Registration district: St James Westminster
Sub-registration district: Golden Square

His father's name is Charles with occupation tailor, born c.1811 St Martins London.

His mother's name is Mary Ann b. circa 1811

Also found them in 1851 living in West Street, Westminster.

I can't seem to find Charles John in 1861 though...

I've done a quick search of the IGI as well, and came up with this:

Charles John Parr marries Mary Ann Perkins 29 Sep 1834 St Anne Soho, Westminster.

Looks like we're getting somewhere!!!

possible death for Charles senior.

Deaths Sep 1875

PARR Charles John 63 Westminster 1a 293

and possible birth

CHARLES JOHN PARR
Christening: 15 OCT 1815 Saint Martin In The Fields, Westminster, London, England


Parents:
Father: JOHN PARR Mother: ELEANOR

Can some kind soul find Charles and his father Charles John on the 1851 or 41?

Thanks,

Selena

Hi,

I have the certificate, and it says that Charles' father's name is Charles John Parr and he is also a tailor. At the time of marriage Charles was living at 14 St Anne's Court, and he was 22.

Here is the marriage from the IGI. No mention of father though

CHARLES PARR
Spouse: MARGARET MURPHY Family
Marriage: 20 SEP 1857 Saint Anne Soho, Westminster, London, England

I think it is worth getting the marriage cert to establish Charles profession and his father's name.

What are the death's of Margaret's death registration?

Selena

Well I wasn't sure as his occupation was different and that was all I really had to go on as solid fact - that and his name.

Yes the Charles marriage was to Margaret Murphy which is also on the IGI. Remembering off the top of my head, I think his father's name was Charles as well.

I'm going to do one last trawl of the BMD to check that no other John Parrs were born in the Soho area at that time. If not, then I think the odds are this is the right person!

Funds permitting I will be ordering the likely death cert of Margaret Murphy as well, which should correlate and further confirm these thoughts.

Thanks a lot for your help! I will carry on looking further, my plan is to visit the Westminster archives when I get a free minute and look at the parish and poor law records, which might give me more info.

Amy - you say 'this [death cert] may help in tracing him.'

Does this mean you don't think the censuses found already are him?

Ozi.