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Was a bit puzzled at first as I had found the marriage to Mr Knight in the name of Sloper but on checking she is also registered as Shipton to Knight with same reference. Perhaps she was only known as Shipton and not actually married to him?

Brenda

right...

I have a reply from the Library.... posting it now !!

1937/38/39 - Victor Turner

in 1938 27a was created with Robert Jasper Ralley living there

in 1939 27a Miss E Nutman

in 1945 27 Dorothy Sloper, Constance & Victor Turner
in 1945 27a Eva & Roy Nutman

Not sure this helps us much but at least we have the data.

So who are Constance & Victor Turner?

I know this seems a wild idea... but was she living there to give Constance & Victor her children?? was Victor their natural father and the reason they are listed as born to that address? Victor was on his own in 1937/38/39....

I haven't read this thread right through, but isn't Constance a sister of Dorothea? People often went to a relatives house to give birth - I know my grandmother went to her sister's house to have my dad.

Kath. x

mmm i do distinctly remember something alon those lines... but the adoption theory stills holds... did her sister adopt them?

Hi Wayne.

Thankyou for that information. I donot know who Constance and Victor are. But and this is strange. Dorothea did have a sister called Constance. I wonder if this is her??

Dionne

The other thing I have just picked up on.

In 1933 the birth of Jean Anne Sloper she is registered as living at The grange Lodge
Mottingham lane. This is the same address as my father born in 1942.

But for Judith 1937 and Patricia 1945
there address is 27 Northview crescent.

It as if Dorothea was going between both homes or am I wrong?
Dionne

Her daughter Judith b1937 was Judith Constance!!!!!!
, so could this Constance and Victor Turner be Judith and Victor the father

Just a guess and something to consider
Ann

Marriage

Victor Turner......Edith C Livermore
Willseden
1st qtr 1939
vol 3a page 545

seems Edith was perhaps known by her second name......Constance!

also birth:

Joyce A Turner mmn Livermore
Willesden
1st qtr 1939
vol 3a page 601

Believe that Dionne said that Constance had a daughter called Joyce.(see page 1)


Brenda

Have i missed a bit, who is Edith?

Ann

Thought Edith was possibly Constance.......Edith "C" Livermore . But it would appear to be the marriage of Victor and "Constance."

Brenda

Did Victor & Edith/Constance have any children? Wondering if it would match with the Sloper children in any way?

Selena

PS Well Done Wayne!

Just so there is no confuson, the names i listed were all over the age of 18! So Soda, your idea of father and child cannot be !
We seem to be gaining speed again.... now what are the chances of Constance the sister adopting Dorothea's children? as you have their birth address now is it worth going to Willesden Social Services and asking them about the 2 sisters?

there is also the London Met thingy i mentioned earlier, i'll give them a call tomorrow and see what was happening at that address from 1940 to 44. These details were not kept at the local Library.
You never know someone might crop up we weren't expecting !!

I've still got David & Adam in my mind and wondering if these where Mr Shipton's children and that's why we can't find them under Sloper.

Selena

ooooh Selena... yes indeed !!

what kind of dates do you think would be relevant for these children?

I agree there is a good chance she had more children !

Have we looked for a livermore / sloper - shipton marriage?

Thankyou so much for your help Wayne.I think even though we know at least two of the sisters were adopted,I dont think I will be able to go any further as I read that adoption records will only be given to the adopted person.Am I correct in this.
Thankyou so much for your assistance in this and I look forward to reading what you might be able to find out tomorrow.

Brenda. Constance did have a daughter called Joyce. My father met her not long after he first met his mother in the late 70's. Im afraid they didnt really hit it off.Joyce semed very jelous of my father for whatever reason. He only met her a few times. There was never any talk from Joyce of her having sisters.
It also still boothers me that on Jean Anne Sloper(1933) birth certificate it doesnt has her as adopted.Why? I ask myself.
Dionne

Great thinking Selena.

I have spent most of the day looking for a marriage to Shipton but have found nothing.I to thought that perhaps there could have been a brother.

I had a 'gentle' chat with my father last week and the only memories he has of his childhood are Shipton being a violent man and hiding under a table from him. Him and his mother walking the streets w him trying to find lodgeings and then being put into a childrens home at around the age of three.He has no memory what soever of having any other children around him.

Dionne

dionne what time scale would Shipton have been around Dorothea?

hello Again Wayne.
My father was born in 1942,no fathers name on the birth certificate although Dorothea was married to Sloper.
Between 1946-1947 my father was placed in the childrens home.He has vague memories of Shipton.I have been searching around the 1946/7 years.
Dionne