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I have one of those ubiquitous relatives that remains a mystery. All I have is his initials as R.I.Clayton. The only clue I have is that he was alive from C:1900 to 1951, there after that is it. It was assumed that he went to South Africa, but there is no conclusive proof. The last place I thought of was that he may have received a pension, but I drew a blank there as the information is protected. BMD does not show a birth. There was a brother B:1903 (my grandfather), but his birth was not register until 1928 due to him divorcing my grandmother at the time. I have been through all possible records, but no luck. I have two family death certificates, but only the initials as a witness. I am now at a loss with this intriguing person who i would like to trace at least a first name. Any one got other ideas would be appreciated.

Have you tried backwards, i.e. looking for his death maybe? Any idea where that might be? Margaret

Their birth will have been registered at the time - it was the law. You Grandfather will have had a copy ISSUED- hence the date- when he divorced your gran maybe, who are we looking for and where, maybe someone else can spot them

If he was alive1900 he should be in the 1901 census. If you know his parents name he should be with them. Perhaps if you give his parents names we can help you look. Good luck Irene

Probably this is where I did not make myself very clear. I am looking for R.I.Clayton. His birth is unknown, and so is his death. I know of his existance, as my father met him twice, and I have photo of him, plus documents bearing witness. Here is were it gets complicated. Knowing that having to register a birth is law, does not mean people do it. As I said in my previous entry, that my Grandfather only registered his birth in 1928, and that was probably because he got divorced in 1928, but was born in 1903. My Great Grandparents only married in 1911, and this would make him illegitamate until their marriage. The family story goes that my Great grand parents did not marry until my great grandmother had children. Sounds odd and bazare, but the more I delve into this the more difficult it becomes to solve this puzzle. I have not found a death for him, but did find other R.I.Clayton's which were not related or the age was wrong. My last hope is to find the last will and testament of my great-grandmother, and this would require a good samaritan to assist, as I do not live in the UK. cheers

Paul which part of the country was the family from and what was your grandfathers name? Georgina.

so, because you havent found his birth, you dont know actually , which name he was registered in even - his fathers or his mothers maiden name. despite your 'knowing' that his birth was not registered at the time i'd be very VERY surprised if yours was one of the miniscule percentage that got away with not doing so if you furnish us with some 'facts' - names, dates, where abouts etc we may be able to help you. Jess x

Thanx to all willing to help. My Grand father was a George Richard Clayton (B:1903-D:1937) WestHam. He had a sister Mabel (Also Unkown). R.I.Clayton was the brother of George and Mabel above. Their parents were Mabel Inez Farmer(B:1880 WhiteChapel- d:1951)and George Clayton(B:1870-D:Unknown) Islington. George and Mabel married in 1911. George Clayton (B:1870) had the following brother and sisters. Arthur(B:1867),Mary-Ann(B:1874),Ellen(B:1876),Lucy(B:1865),Florrie(B:1869) all born in and around Islington The parent of above were George Clayton(B:1829),Lucy Rollason(B:1832) born worcestershire One last thing. The family are listed as meat traders(butchers or sales), and Mabel Inez Clayton(Nee: Farmer) left the family fortune to the Butchers Benevolent Socieity on her death in 1951. This is all the information I have at this stage. Thanx so far Regards

so mabel must have been born after 1911 (you message contradicts iself slightly in that they married in 1911 when they started having children and yet had one in 1903) what certs do you have that you know are categorically correct?

Paul for reference this is the family in 1881... Arthur Clayton abt 1868 London Islington , London, Middlesex, England Son Deptford St Paul London Florrie Clayton abt 1865 London Islington , London, Middlesex, England Daughter Deptford St Paul London George Clayton abt 1872 London Islington , London, Middlesex, England Son Deptford St Paul London George E. Clayton abt 1829 Worcestershire, England Head Deptford St Paul London Lucy Clayton abt 1832 London Islington , London, Middlesex, England Wife Deptford St Paul London Lucy Clayton abt 1869 London Islington , London, Middlesex, England Daughter Deptford St Paul London Mary Ann Clayton abt 1874 London Islington , London, Middlesex, England Daughter Deptford St Paul London Nelly Clayton abt 1876 London Islington , London, Middlesex, England Daughter Deptford St Paul London Mary Getloy abt 1865 Warwickshire, England Servant Deptford St Paul London Source information: RG12/716 Registration district: Greenwich Sub registration district: St Paul Deptford ED, institution, or vessel: 72 Folio: 21 Page: 36 (click to see others on page) GSU Number: 1341167 Georgina.

Jess, It seems that way, but is not the case. Yes George and Mabel where married in 1911, but My grandfather George Richard was born in 1903. This is possibly why I have not found birth information on the other siblings, as the actual registration of Georges birth only took place in 1928 the year he divorced my Grand Mother. BMD have one of those funny SS'28 next to the entry written in by hand. This could have been one of those situations were they were ashamed of not being married and bearing children. Hence my conundrum. cheers

Georgina, That is the correct family. The 1901 census shows George Clayton with his brother Arthur in a tavern in London. regards

Paul have you found Mabel in 1901? Georgina.

Georgina, No I did not. I could only find one reference for her in 1881. She would have been 1 year old. Her father was James Farmer, mother Louisa Bishop. regards

Maybe George was registered as FARMER?? From freebmd Births Mar 1903 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Farmer George Richard Bromley 2a 530

OK, what address is on the 1911 marriage cert?

Jess, I don't have that info yet. Still waiting for receipt. Gwynneth, George (1903) is registered as one of those addons which says SS'28 which basically means see 1928. regards

I have just looked at the register entry which Gwynneth has found for March 1903 and it does not say 'see 1928' or 'ss28' or anything like it. Liz

so, do you have the cert that Gwyneth in Kent has found ref to? Is this one perhaps worth investing in if not?

their is a George Richard recoreded as born in 1928 west Ham Jul/augh/sep/ qtr MMn FARMER............ no notes, no marks, no asterisks ....nothing are you certain they didnt have a son, named after his father and you have your generations in a twiddle?