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Thank you all for the time and work you have done to help me tryi to sort out the riddle of |Rosetta Bidgood cum Casselden. She appears to be a chameleon, changing colours over time. I need now tot ry to put "meat" around all the information you have provided. Many thanks for your efforts and input.

Name: George Thomas R F Casseldon
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1886
Registration district: West Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Volume Number: 4a
Page Number: 243
Mary Ann Hayes

1901

Name: George F Casselden
Age: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Casselden
Gender: Male
Where born: Mile End, London, England
Civil parish: East Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: Forest Gate All Saints
Town: East Ham
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: East Ham
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 194
Piece: 1596
Folio: 100
Page Number: 31
Household Members:
Name Age
George F Casselden 37
Mary Casselden 31
George Casselden 13
Mary Casselden 10
Alce Casselden 7
Rosetta Casselden 1

Name: George Thomas Richard Farrant
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1868
Baptism Date: 19 Feb 1868
Father's Name: George Jethero Farrant
Mother's Name: Rosetta Ruth Farrant
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bromley St Michael and All Angels
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers


Name: George T R F Casselden
Birth Date: abt 1865
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1940
Age at Death: 75
Registration district: Poplar
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1c
Page: 457

Name: William James Moses Farrant
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1868
Baptism Date: 19 Feb 1868
Father's Name: George Jethero Farrant
Mother's Name: Rosetta Ruth Farrant
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bromley St Michael and All Angels
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers


Name: Rachel Rebekah C Dance
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1886
Registration district: West Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Volume Number: 4a
Page Number: 81
James William F Casselden Apr-May-Jun 1886 West Ham Essex

Name: George Thomas Richard Farrant
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1868
Baptism Date: 19 Feb 1868
Father's Name: George Jethero Farrant
Mother's Name: Rosetta Ruth Farrant
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bromley St Michael and All Angels
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers


Name: George Thomas R F Casseldon
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1886
Registration district: West Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Volume Number: 4a
Page Number: 243 (

Name: George T R F Casselden
Birth Date: abt 1865
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1940
Age at Death: 75
Registration district: Poplar
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1c
Page: 457

I would venture to suggest that Rosetta was following in her mother's footsteps by living with someone to whom she wasn't married

The death of Rosetta snr's husband.........

Name: George J Farrant
Birth Date: abt 1844
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1917
Age at Death: 73
Registration district: West Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 60

Name: Jethro George Farrant
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1845
Registration district: Stepney
Inferred County: London
Volume: 2
Page: *68

1881

Name: Rosetta A. Casselden
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: James Casselden
Mother's Name: Rosetta Casselden
Gender: Female
Where born: Poplar, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Mile End Old Town
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 22 Huddart St
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Mile End Old Town
Sub-registration district: Mile End Old Town, Eastern
ED, institution, or vessel: 43
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 487
Folio: 66
Page Number: 49
Household Members:
Name Age
James Casselden 31
Rosetta Casselden 31
George Casselden 16
James Casselden 14
Rosetta A. Casselden 9
James Mulley 31
George Barton 22

This 1901 is linked to 1881 by Ancestry

Name: Rosetta Barnard
[Rosetta Farrant]
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Relation: Head
Mother's Name: Rosetta Farrant
Gender: Female
Where born: Poplar, London, England
Civil parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: Stratford
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 182
Piece: 1564
Folio: 53
Page Number: 34
Household Members:
Name Age
Rosetta Barnard 28
Allan Barnard 10...born NEW YORK
Walter Barnard 4
Henry Barnard 2
Rosetta Farrant 53
Janes Farrant 35
Rachael Farrant 32
George Farrant 6

The waters are even more muddied now.............

Name: Rosetta Ruth Robinson
Spouse Name: George Jethro Farrant
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 25 Jan 1864
Parish: Stepney St Thomas
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Thomas Moses Robinson
Spouse Father Name: Richard Rockwood Farrant
Register Type: Parish Register


Name: James Casselden
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1868
Registration district: Bromley
Inferred County: Kent
Volume Number: 2a
Page Number: 351
Spouse Sarah Ellen Jones

1871

Name: Rosetta Casselder
[Rosetta Casselden]
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: James Casselder
Gender: Female
Where born: Stepney, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: St Leonard Shoreditch
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Shoreditch
Sub-registration district: Holywell
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Household schedule number: 261
Piece: 440
Folio: 52
Page Number: 43
Household Members:
Name Age
James Casselder 25
Rosetta Casselder 24
George Casselder 6
James Casselder 4

Name: Rosetta Beach
Birth Date: abt 1874
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1940
Age at Death: 66
Registration district: London City
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 1c
Page: 26

This is the death of Henry James Arthur

Name: Henry J A Bidgood
Birth Date: abt 1901
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1967
Age at Death: 66
Registration district: Enfield
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 5b
Page: 263

Name: Warwick John Bidgood
Birth Date: 27 Mar 1914
Date of Registration: Mar 1984
Age at Death: 70
Registration district: Great Yarmouth
Inferred County: Norfolk
Volume: 10
Page: 1379


Name: Henry J Bidgood
Birth Date: abt 1898
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1957
Age at Death: 59
Registration district: Marylebone
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5d
Page: 355


Name: Henry James Bidgood
Probate Date: 6 Mar 1958
Death Date: 15 Nov 1957
Death Place: London, England
Registry: London, England
Probate to Midland Bank

Name: Henry J Bidgood...........................Band Leader
Birth Date: abt 1899
Age: 50
Port of Departure: Southampton, England
Arrival Date: 28 Jan 1949
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England
Ports of Voyage: Southampton
Ship Name: Venus
Shipping Line: Det Bergenske Dampskibsselskab
Official Number: LDSV

Travelling with Edna M........age 48.........Secretary

Name: Edna M Woods
Spouse Surname: Bidgood
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1921
Registration district: Grimsby
Inferred County: Lincolnshire
Volume Number: 7a
Page Number: 1677
Find Spouse: Henry J

1911 for INFO


Person: BIDGOOD, H J Address: 91 Harringay Road West Green South Tottenham
Cost


BIDGOOD, R Wife Married20 years F 37 1874 At Sea VIEW
BIDGOOD, T Head Married M 51 1860 Musician Woolwich South VIEW
BIDGOOD, W T Son M 14 1897 School West Ham VIEW
BIDGOOD, H J Son M 12 1899 School West Ham VIEW

You said Henry was born in 1900.........the census shows him to have been born no later than 31st March 1899

This is the birth of child I posted earlier in 1911census.........NOT of this line

Births Jun 1900 (>99%)
BIDGOOD Henry James A Edmonton 3a 481

There are NO birth regn's as Bidgood for either of the boys shown on the 1911 above

Do you have a copy of Rosetta's marriage certificate to Beach in 1927? If so, what is her father's name and occupation? (If not, you need to get it!).

On the marriage to Alfred Charles Butler her residence was given as Bromley and her father was James Casselden, an engineer. The witnesses were George Thomas Richard Casselden and Cecilia Mary Butler.

On the baptism that Reggie posted the father James was a chief engineer on board a steamer ship (perhaps how the born at sea myth arose?). Their address at the time was 28 New Square, Minories. Her actual birth date was 13 August 1871.

You really need to compare the Beach certificate with this info.

Hello Colin, having looked at the original image of the 1911 it most definitely says "At Sea" for the birth of R Bidgood. I'm puzzled as to how you think this could be an error based on the 1881 for Casselden (which actually shows Rosetta's birthplace as Poplar)?

Reggie,

I did not clarify very well the tie up between the children The Butler children were Allan 1891 Walter 1897 and Henry 1899. Walter and Henry would have been 14 and 12 in 1911- compared with W.T.Bidgood ( who was Walter Thomas/Thomas Walter) age 14 and H.J. Bidgood (who was Henry James). Colin

Reggie,

I did not clarify very well the tie up between the children The Butler children were Allan 1891 Walter 1897 and Henry 1899. Walter and Henry would have been 14 and 12 in 1911- compared with W.T.Bidgood ( who was Walter Thomas/Thomas Walter) age 14 and H.J. Bidgood (who was Henry James). Colin

Reggie,

Thank you for your input and comments.

With regards to the 1911 census the following is the data :-

R.Bidgood – Wife age 37, T.Bidgood _Head age 51 married 20 years 4 children born alive 2 surviving
R.Bidgood born at sea. T Bidgood born Woolwich South.
T.Bidgood occupation – musician & teacher
Children:- W.T.Bidgood son 14 and H.J.Bidgood son 12 both born in West Ham
Address 91 Harringay Road, West Green, Tottenham

I think that the "At Sea" birth could be a miss reading of two ditto signs in the birth box in 1881 census for Casselden as I could not find any reference to Rosetta among At Sea births..


I have looked at the Rosetta Ann Casselden and Alfred Butler marriage and did not think this is applicable as Rosetta had 3 children Allan b 1891, Walter b.1897, and Henry b 1899 But I am now wondering if Rosetta left Alfred or he died and she and the children took the Bidgood name. The census says she had 4 children of which 2 died by 1911 and the two surviving children were W.T. (Walter Thomas) and H.J.(Henry James). The dates and christian names tie in with those in the 1911 census.

Thomas was known for his dalliances with woman as well as his alcoholism.


Incidentally Henry aka "Harry" Bidgood was also know as Primo Scala and his accordion band and broadcast regularly on BBC. All Thomas's sons were musicians in one way or another.

There is no birth on freebmd to match the death record

You omitted to post the name from the CWGC record

BIDGOOD, THOMAS WALTER

It would be helpful if you posted the 1911 census to which you referred

Name: Alfed Charles Butler
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Spouse Name: Rosetta Ann Casselden
Spouse Age: 17
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 21 Sep 1887
Parish: Bromley St Leonard St Mary
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Henry Butler
Register Type: Parish Register


Name: Rosetta Ann Casseldon
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1874
Baptism Date: 31 May 1874
Father's Name: James Casseldon
Mother's Name: Rosetta Ruth Casseldon
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Bartholomew by the Exchange
Borough: City of London
Register Type: Parish Registers

1901

Name: Henry Arthur Bidgood
Age: 10 months
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1900
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Henry James Bidgood
Gender: Male
Where born: St Tottenham, London, England
Civil parish: Tottenham
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: Edmonton
Sub-registration district: Tottenham
ED, institution, or vessel: 45
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 308
Piece: 1252
Folio: 180
Page Number: 48
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry James Bidgood 38
Littie Bidgood 23
Alma Blanch Bidgood 1
Henry Arthur Bidgood 10 months
Kate Stent 15