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A tree on Ancestry has wrongly claimed that Solar's Frederick died in Italy in 1918.

The Frederick Gates who died in Italy was born in Alton , Hants in 1888, was aged 30 at death, and was married to an Edith (nee Thomas), living in Alton in 1918.


(And obviously not the Frederick and Edith in Jinks's post above.)

1939 Register - In case Fred returned to/never left UK

Search -Fred* Gates

18 Wilton Place, Portsmouth, Portsmouth C.B., Hampshire, England

Frederick Gates 28 Jun 1878 Male Park Foreman Married 252 1
Edith Gates 02 Nov 1877 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 252 2

DOB does not match Freemantle Fred Gates

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13 Feb 1878 + Gates

No results

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13 Feb 1878 + Whyman

No results

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Baptism was in Freemantle, as per my earlier post

National School Admission Registers & Log-Books 1870-1914
Southampton, Hampshire, England

First name(s) Fred
Country England
Last name Gates
Archive Southampton Archives
Birth year 1878
Archive reference SC/E6/14/24
Birth date 13 Feb 1878 ***************
Book type Admissions
Record set National School Admission Registers & Log-Books 1870-1914
School name Freemantle National School
Category Education & work
Town Southampton
Subcategory Schools & Education
County Hampshire
Collections from Great Britain, England

Log book entries cover Years 1881 and another in 1884

However, on an 1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
17, Fir Grove Road, Millbrook, South Stoneham, Hampshire, England

Albert Gates Head Married Male 47 1844 Ships labourer Lymington, Hampshire
Sarah A Gates Wife Married Female 45 1846 Norfolk
Sarah Gates Daughter Single Female 21 1870 Southampton, Hampshire
William Gates Son Single Male 17 1874 Postman Southampton, Hampshire
and
Fred Gates Son Male 13 1878 Scholar Freemantle, Hampshire, England

I note that OP stated Fred was born in Shirley. I suspect Shirley was the registration district, which included Freemantle.

Solar -

What exactly do you know about his running off to US?
How did you find out about that?


As far as online records are concerned, there seems to be no emigration record for him - at least not under the surname Gates - and no US census or death record either.

If he really did go, he must have changed his name - and not to Whyman, which I've checked.

Above posted by Jink20 -

Louisiana - Father and daughter both born Louisiana

and the New York one was born West indies.

There is another in New York (came up when checking the one posted by Jink20), but he was born New York 1875,. He is with Adeline age 28 wife and Lynn 37 brother.

Anyone with a Full Ancestry Record could look at the following 1920 United States Federal Census. The result page is blurred to me but one of the results lists as

Orleans, Louisiana

Fred Gates 43
Henrietta Gates 24

Relationship isn't listed. Would Henrietta qualify as a "younger lady friend"?!

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Also

Fred Gates 44 New York, New York - no other occupants listed

Do you know his exact DoB?

GATES, FREDERICK HENRY WHYMAN
GRO Reference: 1878 M Quarter in SOUTH STONEHAM Volume 02C Page 71

First name(s) Frederick Henry
Father's last name Gates
Last name Gates
Mother's first name(s) Sarah Ann
Sex Male
Mother's last name Gates
Baptism year 1878
Document type Bishop's Transcripts
Baptism date 26 May 1878
Record set Hampshire Baptisms
Place Freemantle

No, not Minnie. She married and died in England.

In 1901 census, with her siblings and parents, she is Minnie R Pearce.

Birth:
PEARCE, MINNIE ROSE mmn WORT
GRO Reference: 1893 J Quarter in CHRISTCHURCH, HANTS Volume 02B Page 640


Minnie R Pearce
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name Minnie R Pearce
Spouse Surname Player
Registration Year 1914 [1914]
Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district Southampton
Inferred County Hampshire
Volume 2c
Page 118
Records on Page (Name)
Minnie R Pearce
Ernest A Player


Death:
PLAYER, MINNIE ROSA 27
GRO Reference: 1921 M Quarter in SOUTHAMPTON Volume 02C Page 52



Her sister Elsie also married (Matcham) and died in England, so not her either.

from the above 1911 census where Frederick is still living with his wife and children I'm wondering about the 18 year old visitor they had staying with them, Minnie Pearce 18. Maybe she was the young lady he sailed off to the US with?

Thank you so much for all of your help. Much appreciated.

Confirming that the 1925 sailing has no relevance

Gates
Evelyn Annie
1885
1984
England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Ringwood & Fordingbridge, Hampshire, England


1921 Census Of England & Wales
15, Akerman Road, Brixton, Lambeth, London & Surrey, England

Frederick Gates Head Male 1875 46 Lewes, Sussex, England Printer & Paper Merchant Traveller J B Blackmore & Coy Limited, Printer Paker Merchants, High Street, Merton Surrey
Evelyn Annie Gates Wife Female 1886 35 - Childrens Dress Maker -
Elizabeth Hitch Aunt Female 1848 72 Cirencester, Gloucestershire, England

Marriages Dec 1919 (>99%)
Gates Frederick Hitch Lambeth 1d 567
Hitch Evelyn A Gates Lambeth 1d 567

Arrivals to the United States from foreign ports between approximately 1820 and December 1982. The records are arranged by port or airport of arrival.

https://www.archives.gov/research/immigration/passenger-arrival.html

UK and Ireland, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960 for Frederick Gates
Southampton 1925 Oct. He was 50, she was 39.

Ticket number 3482

This chap travelled with wife Evelyn but listed his previous UK address in Lewes, Sussex

30th October 1925

Ship Andania

See Earlier post

We can exclude this Frederick I think.

I think you can rule out the 1904 sailing of a single man

1911 Census For England & Wales
119 Imperial Avenue Shirley Southampton, Shirley, Hampshire, England

Frederick Gates Head Married Male 33 1878 Upholsterer house Hampshire Southampton
Annie Gates Wife Married Female 38 1873 - Hampshire Woolston
Frederick Gates Son - Male 10 1901 School Hampshire Woolston
Rosina Gates Daughter - Female 8 1903 - Hampshire Portsmouth
Lawrence Gates Son - Male 7 1904 - Hampshire Portsmouth
Reginald Gates Son - Male 3 1908 - Hampshire Andover
Leslie Gates Son - Male 0 1911 - Hampshire Southampton
Ellen Pearce Visitor Married Female 47 1864 - Willshire Woodfalls
Charles Pearce Visitor Single Male 20 1891 Ships stokier Hampshire Bournemouth
Minnie Pearce Visitor Single Female 18 1893 Nurse domestic Hampshire Bournemouth
Leonard Pearce Visitor Single Male 15 1896 Shop assistant ironmongery Hampshire Bournemouth
Elsie Pearce Visitor - Female 13 1898 School Hampshire Southampton

1921 Census Of England & Wales
17, Suffolk Avenue, Southampton, Hampshire, England
Annie Lavinia Gates Head Female 1872 48 Woolston, Hampshire, England Upholstress Shepherd & Hedger House Furnisher
Frederick Lionel Gates Son Male 1901 20 Woolston, Hampshire, England General Clerk Junior The Cement Mlastking Cement Manufacturers Co Ltd
Rosina Maude Gates Daughter Female 1902 18 Southsea, Hampshire, England Seed Teching Laboratory Clerk Toogood & Sons Ltd Seed Merchchants
Lawrence Basil George Gates Son Male 1904 17 Southsea, Hampshire, England Boot & Shoe Salesman W J French & Son Boot Maker Out Of Work
Reginald Raymond Gates Son Male 1907 13 Andover, Hampshire, England - -
Leslie Victor Gates Son Male 1910 11 Southampton, Hampshire, England - -
Bessie Jane Gearey Sister Female 1880 41 Woolston, Hampshire, England Private Domestic -
Bessie Furnell Friend Female 1886 35 Meonstoke, Hampshire, England Private Domestic

Annie is 'married'.......no further comment on the record

Thank you both. I'll take a look into these. Think we can narrow it down to between 1911 and 1921 then, as he's no longer appearing with his family in 1921. Good idea about initial too, thank u!

First name(s) Frederick
Country United States
Last name Gates
Destination place - country USA
Sex Male
Destination country United States
Birth year 1879
Ship's name Oceanic
Age 25
Ship's registered tonnage 17273
Age as transcribed 25
Ship's square feet 15857
Marital status S
Ship's master's first name(s) J G
Occupation Laborer
Ship's master's last name Cameron
Departure day 27
Number of passengers 451
Departure month 1
Length of voyage in days 24
Departure year 1904
Ship's departure port LIVERPOOL
Departure port Liverpool
Ship's destination port New York
Departure country England
Ship's destination country USA
Entry struck out N
Record set Passenger Lists Leaving UK 1890-1960
Destination port New York
Category Travel & migration
Destination New York
Subcategory Passenger Lists
State New York
Collections from Great Britain, England, United States, Americas

I will post what I find................

First name(s) Frederick
State New York
Last name Gates
Country United States
Sex Male
Destination place - country USA
Birth year 1875
Destination country United States
Age 50
Ship's name Andania
Age as transcribed 50
Ship's master's first name(s) A T
Marital status M
Ship's master's last name Brown
Occupation Retired
Shipping line Cunard
Departure day 2
Number of passengers 68
Departure month 11
Ship's departure port SOUTHAMPTON
Departure year 1925
Ship's destination port New York
Departure port Southampton
Ship's destination country USA
Departure country England
Record set Passenger Lists Leaving UK 1890-1960
Entry struck out N
Category Travel & migration
Destination port New York
Subcategory Passenger Lists
Destination New York
Collections from Great Britain, England, United States, Americas