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The Richards/Husband marriage was in 1854..........................

Sorry ErikaH, I didn't understand your last post

Refers to a post by someone quoting 'info' from Ancestry............

???

Dd Richard
in the 1891 Wales Census
Name: Dd Richard
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Dd Richard
Mother's Name: Eleanor Richard
Gender: Male
Where born: Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil parish: Ystradyfodwg
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrews
Town: Clydach
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration district: Pontypridd
Sub registration district: Ystradyfodwg
ED, institution, or vessel: 27
Neighbors:
Piece: 4426
Folio: 124
Page number: 35
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Dd Richard 43 Head - Abergwili, Carmarthenshire
Eleanor Richard 37 Wife - Merthyr
Dd Richard 17 Son - Aberdare <<<<<<<<<<<<
Thos Richard 13 Son - Aberdare
Henry Richard 6 Son
James Richard 4 Son - Ystradyfodwg <<<<<<<<<<
Margaret John 65 Boarder


???

James Richards
in the 1901 Wales Census
Name: James Richards
Age in 1901: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation: Son
Father: David Richards
Mother: Ellen Richards
Gender: Male
Where born: Ystradyfodwg, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil parish: Ystradyfodwg
Search Photos:
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Ecclesiastical parish: Llwynypia St Andrew
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration district: Pontypridd
Sub-registration district: Ystradyfodwg
ED, institution, or vessel: 39
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 205
Piece: 5016
Folio: 167
Page number: 32
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
David Richards 54 Head - Carmarthenshire
Ellen Richards 47 Wife - Penydarren, Glamorgan
Henry Richards 17 Son
James Richards 15 Son
Elizabeth A Richards 12 Daughter

Got it, thank you ErikaH

Someone was me.

It is now looking as though those Ancestry trees are wrong saying David (wife Helena) was the son of Elizabeth Husband.

A marriage 20 years before a birth is not necessarily discountable. Although it would make the James birth very unlikely.

But nothing is 'proved'!

Trouble is namelessone they don't put any documentation on, and I think a lot of copying has gone on here, as usual.

I agree.

I once tried to help someone research in the same area for the same time period.

Baptismal records were not available. Many Welsh Chapels destroyed their records. Fathers on night shifts are not included in census. In our case too many Jones families and not ever being able to spot two brothers together in the same household whenever the census was done. Then they move from mine to mine!
Still have nightmares!!!!

Yes, most of my family are Irish or Welsh, couldn't be worse for research, but I am grateful for some good possible pointers today, I will definitely order the certificates now.

Following on from possible 1891 and 1901 posted above -(same address as 1891 and 1901):

David Richards
 in the 1911 Wales Census
Name: David Richards
Age in 1911: 63
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Abergwill, Carmarthenshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Rhondda
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: 8 Sunny Bank Blaenclydach Rhondda Valley
Marital status: Married
Years Married: 30
Estimated Marriage Year: 1881
Occupation: Colliery Horse Keeper
Registration District: Pontypridd
Registration District Number: 589
Sub-registration District: Rhondda
ED, institution, or vessel: 38
Household Schedule Number: 8
Piece: 32366
Household Members:
Name Age
David Richards 63
Eleanor Richards 56 - Merthyr
Henry Richards 26 - Rhondda
Cathrine Richards 9
Augustus Rees 21


Married 30 years - therefore c1881 - therefore a second marriage?
Therefore sons David and Thomas would have had a different mmn from James and the other younger children.

???

Marriages Mar 1882   (>99%)
RICHARDS  David  Merthyr T  11a 570   
THOMAS  Ellen  Merthyr T.  11a 570


???
Thomas Richards
in the 1881 Wales Census
Name: Thomas Richards
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil parish: Aberdare
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: 6 Canal Row
Registration district: Merthyr Tydfil
Sub registration district: Aberdare
ED, institution, or vessel: 43
Neighbors:
Piece: 5325
Folio: 65
Page number: 15
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Ann Williams 40 Head
William Williams 16 Son
Catherine Williams 4 Daughter
Thomas Richards 3 Grandson
Elizabeth Davies 20 Servant



David Richards
in the 1881 Wales Census
Name: David Richards
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Nephew
Gender: Male
Where born: Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil parish: Ystradyfodwg
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: 30 Howard Ter
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Pontypridd
Sub registration district: Ystradyfodwg
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors:
Piece: 5306
Folio: 20
Page number: 42
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Thomas Richards 35 Head
Rachel Richards 12 Daughter
David Richards 7 Nephew, aberdare <<<<<<<
Thomas Powell 35 Brother in Law (Brother-in-law)
David Richards 53 Brother - widower, Carmarthenshire <<<<<<<<
Jonah Davies 24 Boarder
Mary Evans 28 Visitor

ArgyllGran, you may have broken down my brick wall, in fact 2 brick walls, that David Richards is my Great Great Grandfather and I have 2 marriage certificates for him in my archives, I was sure he was married twice, and he may have married 2 sisters, Martha Evans and Eleanor Evans. I will dig out the certificates.

Unbeknownst to me until just now, this may now link in with one of my previous threads from years ago when I was investigating my GG Grandfather David Richards, these two David's may well be one and the same.

Re Thomas as a grandson with the Williams family in 1881 -

I don't see likely births of Thomas or David Richards with mmn Williams .

But there are these illegitimate births:

WILLIAMS, DAVID -
GRO Reference: 1873 M Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 394

WILLIAMS, THOMAS -
GRO Reference: 1878 J Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 472

Deborah -
If the Evans marriages you mention are correct, then obviously ignore my suggestion re Thomas in 1881, and the illegitimate Williams births.

Going back to the possible birth of David with mmn Evans -

then this could be Thomas:

RICHARDS, THOMAS mmn EVANS
GRO Reference: 1878 S Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 401

But as you say, there are so many people with the same names.

I thought there was something familiar about the names etc..........

Please post the link to your previous thread(s) so we can see what has been found already which may prove useful

Thomas and Catherine Richards first posted 14th May 2018 at 14.13

Cant seem to c and p the link to you.

I really had no idea these two may be connected, if they are, that's 2 brick walls down.

Will keep trying to c and p

Link to that thread:

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1372061

1901 at 8 Sunny Bank is mentioned in that thread (page 3) - I haven't read it all through to see what else is there.

ADDED:
Deborah has Thomas's birth cert, with mother's name Martha Evans.
Martha died 1878.

That's it, thank you ArgyllGran, it is a long thread.

Right at the end mentions the two wives of David Richards, and I referred to the certificates I ordered.

I do apologise because if I had known that these 2 Richards lines were possibly connected I would have added it to my previous thread.

Thanks AG

Deborah
To show a link to another thread, simply C&P the URL.
Hope this helps :-) :-)