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As ErikaH said back in October, you can't get birth certs for them in any case, as they were born before 1837.

Baptism records are all you can hope for.

Thank you it looks as though I'm going to have to call it a day on that one, with out any proof I can't get the births certificates for Thomas and John as their are too many

Possible baptism of John ??? - But no way to prove it:

John Turner
in the Manchester, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1901 (Cathedral)
Name: John Turner
Baptism Date: 19 Apr 1835
Parish: Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Father's Name: Thomas Turner
Mother's Name: Ann Turner
Archive Roll: 762

The father is a striper (or stripper on another version of the baptism record) - someone who cleans the carding machines.

Unfortunately no address given, other than "Manchester".

Brother John's second marriage:

John Turner [carder]
in the Manchester, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930 (Cathedral)
Name: John Turner, widower
Birth Year: abt 1834
Marriage Date: 20 Dec 1864
Parish: Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Father's Name: Thomas Turner [card grinder]
Spouse's Name: Ann Jones
Spouse's Father's Name: William Birtles
Archive Roll: 732

Address: 13 Berry Street.


First marriage:

John Turner
in the Manchester, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930 (Cathedral)
Name: John Turner [carder]
Birth Year: abt 1834
Marriage Date: 16 Sep 1855
Parish: Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Father's Name: Thomas Turner [carder ]
Spouse's Name: Ann Walton
Spouse's Father's Name: William Walton
Archive Roll: 723


Address: 13 Berry Street.

Thomas 1832's marriage:

Thomas Turner
in the Manchester, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930 (Cathedral)
Name: Thomas Turner [spinner ]
Birth Year: abt 1833
Marriage Date: 19 Aug 1855
Parish: Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Father's Name: Thomas Turner [ carder ]
Spouse's Name: Sarah Hallam
Spouse's Father's Name: Benjamin Hallam, labourer.
Archive Roll: 723

Address of both: 4 Peter Street, Ardwick
Witnesses: Elizabeth Hallam ; Thomas Ashworth (?).



A daughter's baptism - before marriage:

Sarah Ann Turner
 in the Manchester, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1915
Name: Sarah Ann Turner
Baptism Date: 12 Mar 1854
Baptism Place: Ancoats, St Andrew, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears: Manchester
Father: Thomas Turner [spinner ]
Mother: Sarah Hallam Turner
Reference Number: GB127.M45/1/10/2

Address: 7 Berry Street - where Thomas, parents, and siblings were living at 1851 census already posted.


Thomas, Sarah and family in 1871:

Thomas Turner
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Thomas Turner
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: 1833
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester
Civil parish: Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: London Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Household schedule number: 158
Piece: 4042
Folio: 105
Page number: 26
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Thomas Turner 38 Head, cotton spinner
Sarah Turner 36 Wife
Sarah Ann Turner 18 Daughter
Mary Jane Turner 16 Daughter
Thomas Turner 12 Son
Joseph Turner 11 Son
William Turner 8 Son

Who, when and where did he marry?

Thank for your advice Thomas 1832 was my 2nd grandfather

Unfortunately, there are several baptisms of children named Thomas or John Turner in Manchester around the right times.

They're very common names.

There are also possible marriage records of the parents of the baptised children, but no way to know if they're the right couples.
No fathers' names for any of the grooms, so there's no way to know if any of the grooms might have been a brother or other relative of Thomas senior.

It's also possible that the children you're interested in weren't baptised, or that the records haven't survived.

As no-one has so far found the info online, you will probably need to visit the relevant Records Office, or, if that isn’t possible, try contacting them to see if they offer a lookup facility.

Thanks for clearing that up
Thought the Marriage certificate would help but I think it's made it worse
If Thomas and Ann Hogin hadn't been married before does that mean they are Thomas 1832 and John 1834 Parents ? seems a long time to wait to marry and also why the big gap before they had Mary??
What I need is the baptisms of Thomas and John to tell me for sure who the parents are

Down. No logic to having two options

Thought It was up or down ?

For INFO

The marriage above was in AMJ 1838

Don't forget that in 1841 ages of over-15's were rounded down to the nearest '5'

Think I've tried looking but I think I'm going to start all over again possibly try and find Edward calculating the birth of Thomas 25 in 1841 so he was possibly born 1816 give or take 5 yrs that put him 1811-1819 ?
There is one on family search 1811 father Edward Turner mother Elizabeth ? seems to fit So that could mean Edward could have been round the 1885

Have you thought of looking for marriages of the boys to see who they name as their father?

Fustion is a cloth so the occupation you query looks quite possible, especially given the occupations of the parents.

Happy New year to all

Finally got the marriage certificate this morning after the GRO put a Manchester post code in stead of a Welsh One???

Thomas Turner Full age BACHELOR a carder 21 Richmond St father Edward Turner occupation?? a guess Fustion Cutter??
Ann Hogin Full age SPINSTER 21 Richmond St father THomas Hogin a weaver
witnesses looks like John Faith and Hannah Hogin

so The 2 boys could be brothers nephews??

Thanks, ErikaH.

Not all the house numbers in Berry Street are listed in either 1861 or 1871.

In 1861, there's 1 - 20, then 22 and 24, but not 21 or 23.
In 1871 there's 1-24, and then 26 and 28, but not 25 or 27.
(Unless I've missed them.)

So the Turners may have been somewhere on Berry Street in 1861, as in 1851, 1855 (son John's marriage cert 1855 says 13 Berry Street) , 1866, 1871 - but we can't know where.

Henry Foden at No 7

I'd like to know names in Berry Street in 1861, too, please.
I'm using Ancestry, and have spent far too long scouring the 1861 census pages for the London Road area of Manchester.

TURNER, THOMAS 52
GRO Reference: 1858 J Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 153

Get the cert for informant's details

Which site are you using to access censuses?
If it's FMP, simply use the address search facility