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Hello

Im trying to find out the parents of Richard Roberts born 0808 england

I know he married a Mary Boden born 1818 born manachester i believe

Kids-Richard Roberts Robert 1842 douglas, i.o.m
John 1843 "
William Boden Roberts 1845 "
George 1853 "
and Mary Ann 1858 bradden, i.o.m


Im struggling to find a marriage cert/entry, may have married in I.O.M? I found them on the I.O.M 1841 census and then on the 1861 Richard may have died by then as Mary was head of household. I cannot seem to find the 1851 census for I.O.M either.

Any help will be appreciated.

A difficult name to research.

Where in England do you think he was born? Have you checked for his death inIOM?

The family history society for the IOM may be able to help.

Purely for info - Mary and two of her children

Strand Street, Conchan, Isle of Man
Mary Roberts Head Widow Female 42 1819 General servant Manchester, Lancashire, England
George Roberts Son Unmarried Male 4 1857 - Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man
Mary Ann Roberts Daughter - Female 2 1859 - Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man

IF her husband fathered them all, he must have been alive in 1858

Is this your family in 1861?

If so, then Mary is shown as a widow and as born Manchester

George is born 1857 unless the first one died and there was another birth

Mary Ann is shown as aged 2, so born 1858/9. Richard died then between her conception and the census of 1861 (Unless Mary Ann not his)

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Strand Street, Conchan, Isle of Man

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Mary Roberts Head Widow Female 42 1819 General servant Manchester, Lancashire, England
George Roberts Son Unmarried Male 4 1857 - Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man
Mary Ann Roberts Daughter - Female 2 1859 - Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man

1841 - again for INFO

Name: Puard Roberts
[Richard Roberts]
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1808
Gender: Male
Where born: England
Civil parish: Onchan
County/Island: Isle of Man
Country: Isle of Man
Registration district: Isle of Man
Sub-registration district: Isle of Man
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1465
Folio: 6
Book: 7
Page number: 8
Household Members Age
John Killip 25
Ellen Killip 20
Anne Killip 2
John Killip 1
Puard Roberts 33
Mary Roberts 28
Joshua Roberts 25...........Tailor
Edw Steward 17
Eleanor Roberts 4.....b. Scotland
Robt Kisserk 70

Have you thought of following-up on Joshua, in case he's a brother?

https://www.manxbmd.com - free to search

Although civil registration began in 1849 it was not compulsory until 1878 (1884 for marriages) Records prior to this will be found in Parish registers

Possibly Eleanor in 1851 ?

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
2, Barnes Street, Manchester, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Henry Hall Head Unmarried Male 29 1822 Proprictor of a cafe restarant Griff, Warwickshire, England
Mary Wild House keeper Unmarried Female 39 1812 Manager & housekeeper Eastwood, Nottinghamshire, England
Martha Swann Servant Unmarried Female 20 1831 Kitchenmaid Hopetown, Yorkshire, England
Hannah Dooley Servant Unmarried Female 20 1831 Waitress Derbyshire, England
Ann Dooley Servant Unmarried Female 16 1835 Waitress Derbyshire, England
Eleanor Roberts Servant Unmarried Female 15 1836 Pantry maid Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Charlotte Dooley Visitor Unmarried Female 7 1844 Visitor Derbyshire, England

Name George Roberts
Sex Male
Christening Date 01 Jan 1857
Christening Place St Thomas, Braddan, Isle of Man
Father's Name Richard Roberts.....................Butcher
Mother's Name Mary Bowden
Event Type Christening

Name Mary Ann Roberts
Sex Female
Christening Date 18 Aug 1858
Christening Place Douglas, Isle of Man
Christening Place (Original) Saint Thomas, Douglas, Isle of Man
Birth Date 4 Jul 1858
Father's Name Richard Roberts.........Butcher
Father's Sex Male
Mother's Name Mary Bowder
Mother's Sex Female
Event Type Christening


Name John Roberts
Sex Male
Christening Date 31 Aug 1843
Christening Place St Barnabas, Braddan, Isle of Man
Father's Name Richard Roberts..........Butcher
Mother's Name Mary Boardman
Event Type Christening

Speculating somewhat


1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Benjohnson Street, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Joshua Roberts Visitor Married Male 38 1813 Tailor Manchester, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Roberts Visitor Married Female 36 1815 Servant Manchester, Lancashire, England
Anne Roberts Visitor Unmarried Female 6 1845 Servant Manchester, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Roberts Visitor Unmarried Female 2 1849 Servant Manchester, Lancashire, England

@ namelessone i was struggling to find his death but will look on the family history society thanks for that (didn't know where to go)!!


@ErikaH yeah i found those records too, haven't looked for his brother yet, i knew it was Joshua but hadn't actually gotten any further than that! will try him to see if more luck.

@greyghost yes that is them on the 1861 census, i found them on the 1841 census but not the 1851!! I'm unsure if Elinor is their child or potentially his brother Joshua's??

There's no baptism for Elinor (or other spelling) on ScotlandsPeople - which is a pity, as it would have given her father's name.


????
Eleanor Roberts
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Eleanor Roberts
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Civil Parish: Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: St Anns
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 2 Barnes Street
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration District: Manchester
Sub-registration District: Market Street
ED, institution, or vessel: 1y
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 70
Piece: 2229
Folio: 704
Page Number: 28
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Hall 29
Mary Wild 39
Martha Swann 20
Hannah Dooley 20
Ann Dooley 16
Eleanor Roberts 15
Charlotte Dooley 7

(Now I see already posted by GG)

My guess is the family are in Manchester if that is Eleanor on the 1851 census.

Much of the 1851 census for Manchester was water damaged and although restoration has been done, there are still missing/illegible pieces.

No help with Richard's parents, I'm afraid.
But Eleanor was Richard's child.


Elkana Roberts [ Eleanor on image ]
in the Manchester, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930
Name: Elkana Roberts
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 19
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Year: abt 1835
Marriage Date: 3 Sep 1854
Marriage Place: Manchester, St Mary, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears: Manchester
Father: Ruhard Roberts [ butcher ] <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse: John Bell
Reference Number: GB127.M403/2/3/12

Eleanor's address at marriage: 32(?) Owen Street


Eleanor Bell
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Eleanor Bell
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: 1837
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John Bell
Gender: Female
Where born: Scotland <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Civil parish: Hulme
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Hulme
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 116
Piece: 2893
Folio: 45
Page number: 23
Household Members Age Relationship
John Bell 28 Head
Eleanor Bell 24 Wife
John H Bell 6 Son
Edward Bell 3 Son
Eleanor Bell 10/12 Daughter
John Roberts 17 Boarder , Isle of Man <<<<<<<<<<


Burial of daughter Eleanor:

Eleanor Bell
in the Manchester, England, Church of England Deaths and Burials, 1813-1985
Name: Eleanor Bell
Age: 4
Birth Date: abt 1860
Burial Date: 22 Sep 1864
Burial Place: Hulme, St George, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears: Hulme, St George
Father: John Bell
Mother: Eleanor Bell
Reference Number: GB127.M383/1/3/6


Eleanor senior emigrated to Canada at some point:


Eleanor Bell
in the Ontario, Canada, Deaths and Deaths Overseas, 1869-1948
Name: Eleanor Bell
Gender: Female
Age: 42
Birth Date: abt 1838
Birth Place: Isle of Man <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ??
Death Date: 1 Jan 1880
Death Place: York, Ontario, Canada
Religion: Methodist Episcopal Church
Cause of Death: Not Uarkumd Caw Pat West But Oner??
[ Not a (something) ... Saw patient but once 3 (?) hours before death when she was (unconscious ?), but was told she had been confined two or three days before.]

No relatives named.
Informant was DR C C Job, who provided the largely unreadable info re cause of death.
Yes, I know she was born in Scotland, but presumably Dr Job got his info from one of her children (Edward below, perhaps?) who may have thought she was born in IOM


Son Edward:

Edward Bell
in the Ontario, Canada, Marriages, 1826-1938
Name: Edward Bell
Age: 22
Birth Year: abt 1856
Birth Place: England
Marriage Date: 15 Oct 1878
Marriage Place: York, Ontario, Canada
Father: John Bell <<<<<<<<<<<
Mother: Eleanor Bell <<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse: Caroline Stubbing

UPDATE---

Thanks guys this is helpful after contacting the I.O.M family history society on facebook, i managed to find Richard in the news paper articles- was a butcher!

He tried to rob the post office (03/01/1849) and was caught by a citizen who he then pulled a knife on then got away and was arrested the following morning. The article in the paper dated tue 21st march 1850 stated he pleaded not guilty and was sentenced to death by hanging! He was a prisoner at Castle Rushen (i.o.m) but then he must of had retrial or something as he pleaded guilty on 23rd nov 1854 and got 10yrs transportation. Hence why his wife was head of house in 1861 census.

The transportation am i right in thinking this would be to Australia? Would there be records for this? landing at AU? Also trying to find some info while he was at Castle Rushen but no success. If anyone can point me in the right direction again ill be grateful.

???

England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935
Isle of Man, Great Britain


First name(s) Richard
Ship name York
Last name Roberts
Source Home Office: Criminal Petitions: Series II
Birth year -
Series HO18
Occupation Pork butcher
Piece number 278
Year 1850
Year range 1850-1850
Date ? ? 1850
Record set England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935
Court -
Category Institutions & organisations
Place Isle of Man
Subcategory Prison Registers
Sentence type 10 years
Collections from Great Britain, UK None


England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935
Great Britain

Transcript of Richard's record
First name(s) Richard
Series PCOM2
Last name Roberts
Source Millbank Prison, Middlesex: Register Of Prisoners
Occupation Butcher
Piece number 36
Age 61
Record set England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935
Birth year -
Category Institutions & organisations
Year -
Subcategory Prison Registers
Court Castle Rushen
Collections from Great Britain, UK None

ohhh thank you @alviegal so looks like he was sent back to england??

Transportation would be to Australia.

No travel records for him on Ancestry.


For our interest:

... Isle of Man.— At the general gaol delivery held last week at Castletown, Isle of Man, Richard Roberts was charged with burglary. The offence alleged was that on the 3d of January last the prisoner broke into the dwelling- house of Mr. Thomas Macadam of Douglas with a felonious intent. Eleanor Jane Macadam, postmistress of Douglas, proved that she had lived in her father's house during the last four years. The post office door was locked by her father on the night of the 2d of January inst. On that evening she went out on a visit, but returned at one o'clock on the following morning. Witness went up into the drawing- room with her sister-in-law, and while there they both heard a creaking noise. below. They both went out on the landing, and proceeding down a few steps, she saw the figure of a man in the hall, who was about three yards from the front door, which was shut. She instantly gave the alarm, and desired her sister- in-law to call her brother Noble. The man opened the door and escaped, but witness heard his receding footsteps in the street, and followed after him, guided by the sound. He turned into Factory-lane, where witness overtook him, and seized him by the collar of his coat. He struggled hard to get away, and got her finger into a rough ring, which he held in his left hand ; he tripped her up, and they both fell together. As they both lay struggling on the ground, she heard the voice of her brother, Noble Macadam, and called out to him to come into the Factory-lane to her assistance. When her brother came up, the prisoner, who hitherto had not spoken a word, cried out, Oh, Mr. Macadam, let me go home to my wife ; it is the first time. Witness left the prisoner in charge of her brother, and went in search of a policeman, but not finding one, she procured the assistance of a person of the name of Richard Quirk, who accompanied her with the prisoner to the station-house. Her father by this time joined them. Witness persuaded her brother to go home and dress himself, as he had nothing on but his drawers.
Quirk held his lantern up to the prisoner's face, and identified him, and said he was Roberts, the pork butcher. Quirk invited witness to go to his house, which she reluctantly complied with, but feeling uneasy, she went back to the station-house, and there learnt that the prisoner had escaped. The next time witness saw the prisoner was at the High Bailiff's office, on the 4th of January. Mr. Noble Macadam corroborated the above evidence. Mr. Thomas Macadam proved that he was left alone with the prisoner at .the station-house, when a violent struggle took place be- tween them ; the prisoner took out a knife, and said, I'll give you the knife. Witness succeeded in obtaining possession of the knife, which was a large-sized butcher's knife. In the struggle, both witness and the prisoner went down together on the ground. He allowed him to get up, when the prisoner sprung away from him and made his escape. The prisoner was afterwards arrested on the 4th of January, opposite Marina Terrace. The jury found the prisoner guilty, and sentence of death was passed upon him by Mr. Deemster Heywood, who told the prisoner that. inasmuch as the country to which we belong has adopted a principle of great leniency, and the jury have recommended you to mercy, it will be the care of the Court that your case be known to her Majesty, and it may be your sentence may be qualified. —
Published: Sunday 31 March 1850
Newspaper: Morning Post
County: London, England

Yeah i found that article too, ok so no travel records so either missing or potentially died in prison? the plot thickens!!

Re Millbank Prison , and transportation-

"Millbank Prison or Millbank Penitentiary was a prison in Millbank, Westminster, London, originally constructed as the National Penitentiary, and which for part of its history served as a holding facility for convicted prisoners before they were transported to Australia. It was opened in 1816 and closed in 1890. "

"Every person sentenced to transportation was sent to Millbank first, where they were held for three months before their final destination was decided. By 1850, around 4,000 people were condemned annually to transportation from the UK. Prisoners awaiting transportation were kept in solitary confinement and restricted to silence for the first half of their sentence.
Large-scale transportation ended in 1853 (although the practice continued on a reduced scale until 1867); and Millbank then became an ordinary local prison"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millbank_Prison

The ship York only sailed 4 times to AU. The only one near the time would of been the last on 7/10/1862 but his name is not on the list, there was only one Roberts onboard and defiantly not my Roberts.